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Turner, Belfast

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Turner, Belfast

Postby Narnster » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:48 am

I wonder if anyone can help as I'm stuck! I have quite a lot of information but then I reach a dead end. The family in question is:
- Richard Turner born 1873 Carlisle, died Belfast 1916 and was a blacksmith/soldier in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers/102nd/103rd Foot. (Are they all one and the same?) He married Margaret Little 2.6.1893 in Newry, Ireland. (I have no idea why he ended up in Ireland, the rest of the family were all in Carlisle.)
- Mary Elizabeth Turner born 1894 Sheffield and married David Lindsay in Belfast in 1921, her daughter Edna (or possibly Kathleen Edna) was born in 1924 registered in Cavan.
- Nellie Turner born in Naas, Curragh in 1900.
- Richard Turner born 1904 and died 1905 both in Malta.
- James Turner born in Cairo in 1910, died London 1955.
- There was another child as yet unidentified but judging by the other births could be anywhere! The family is in India on the 1911 census.
My problem is that I can't find the deaths for Margaret (known as Maggie), Mary (possibly known as May) or Nellie. Nellie never married and she was living with her mother in Belfast in 1953 but the house is empty in 1956. I have my grandmother's address book and in it Mary's address is in Belfast but my grandmother died in 1982 so I don't have any dates. There is a line through Mary's details so I guess my grandmother knew she'd died. It would be great if I could find Edna too!!!
Any help would be very much appreciated!
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Turner, Belfast

Postby brunes08 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm

It may be of help - the Dublin Fusiliers were involved with defeating the 1916 Easter Rising. The British Army had various regiments in Ireland so it may be useful to have a look at that. Have you found his army records?
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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby Narnster » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:13 pm

Thanks for replying. I haven't found his army records but it isn't for the want of trying! There was another Richard Turner in Belfast that was a more senior role in the military but I have been able to rule him out as the wrong one. (Sadly, as there was lots of information about him.) My RT died of a heart condition/bronchitis so he wasn't killed in action, but that wasn't to say he wasn't involved in the Easter Rising because he died on 30th December 1916.

His address on marriage was Newry Barracks. Was the RDF a British Regiment?

Re his wife, if she was born around 1873, then she would have died before the 50 year cut off date on irishgenealogy.ie I assume, yet none of the Margaret Turners seem to fit. Unless she lived to be very old!! I have current subs for Ancestry and fmp but I still can't find them. I have a photo of her in about 1946 and she looks very old then!
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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:46 pm

Royal Dublin Fusiliers in WW1 - see http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-dublin-fusiliers/

The RDF was created in 1881 by the amalgamation of the Royal Bombay Fusiliers and the Royal Madras Fusiliers. No, I am not kidding. They were originally the 103rd and 102nd Regiments of Foot respectively, and further back, 2 European regiments of the East India Company's armies.

As a WW1 era soldier, the chance of his detailed records surviving the WW2 fire is somewhere between 25 and 33%. His name should be on the CWGC site as a WW1 death. His name will only appear in the Medal Rolls or Medal Index Cards if he served in WW1 outside the UK - and of course, Ireland was part of the UK at that time.

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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby brunes08 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:56 pm

My apologies. I was waylaid in the middle of writing my earlier comment. Regarding soldiers from the mainland being sent to Ireland, I have two ancestors who were in 'English' regiments but posted to Ireland. For example, the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry was in Dublin before war broke out in 1914. I also have one who was educated at the military school in Dublin in the 1890s. It wasn't until 1922 that Eire became completely independent of the United Kingdom so there was no reason why any soldier might not be sent there.
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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby ianbee » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:33 pm

Narnster wrote:Re his wife, if she was born around 1873, then she would have died before the 50 year cut off date on irishgenealogy.ie

There are no BMD records from the north post partition on that site .
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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby Narnster » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:42 pm

Thank you both. He died at home in Belfast but his occupation was a soldier. Does that suggest he was a serving soldier? I can't find him on CWGC site or any other come to that. I can't find any pension record either. In fact I haven't been able to find any official military records as such but I know from the 1911 census that he was a serving private (a blacksmith) in the RDF. AdrianB38 - that information explains (sort of) why his first two children were registered three times! RDF/102nd/103rd!

What I don't know is what he was doing between the 1911 census in India and his death in Belfast in 1916. I'd like to know where he was buried but I got this message re my enquiry: "Unfortunately I’ve checked Belfast City Council burial records and those of Knockbreda Cemetery and am unable to find any entry for Mr Richard Turner. The public records office on N Ireland might be able to supply further information."

Am I missing something?!
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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby Narnster » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:48 pm

Thank you ianbee. Any suggestions where I might find the records I'm looking for? I found Richard and Margaret's marriage, Richard's death and Mary's marriage on irishgenealogy but they were 1921 and earlier. The name Nellie Turner isn't as common as Margaret Turner but still I'm not finding anything on Ancestry or fmp. Should they be on there if they died in Belfast 1950s ish?
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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby ianbee » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:05 pm

Hi
Unfortunately, as far as I know the Northern Ireland indexes are not on those websites.
You could try GRONI, but you may have to purchase credits -
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/

You could have a look at the will calendars on the PRONI website. I can't say there appears to be anything particularly promising though.

There's a marriage in Cootehill (Cavan) in June 1951 of an Edna Lindsay to John Wilson, possibly might be Mary's daughter.
Ian
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Re: Turner, Belfast

Postby Narnster » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:29 pm

Thanks again Ian. I've now found Margaret's death in 1953 in Belfast but not Nellie's. She was born in 1900 so I'm guessing that she died within the last 50 years. Do you know if it's possible to find that record elsewhere? I'm still looking for Mary!
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