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War Records help

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War Records help

Postby C Verrill » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:13 pm

My Great Uncle, James Worthington served in WW11 in the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps and I have established he died during the Dunkirk evacuation when he was on board the Lancastria. He was only 20. I have details of his name being on the Army Roll of Honour, Commonwealth War Graves and find a grave from Ancestry and am pretty sure its him. What I would like to do is try and apply for his service records and have downloaded the appropriate forms from GOV.UK ready to send off my £30. (I'd do this on behalf of my Mother who is his only living close relative and she was a Worthington prior to marriage).

My question is, does anyone know if there will be any records to release or given the circumstances of his tragic death, have I got as much as I can? If there are any records what are they likely to be? I have emailed the National Archives and their response was a waste of time and didn't answer my question (which I thought was straight forward).

Thanks - Christine
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Re: War Records help

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:03 pm

I have emailed the National Archives and their response was a waste of time and didn't answer my question (which I thought was straight forward)

With respect, you're asking TNA, who don't hold the documents, to second guess their contents. Officialdom is never going to give you a concrete answer to that.

His Service Records will be held by the Ministry of Defence. Those records were kept in admin offices and didn't go out (unless anyone knows different!) so the circumstances of his death will have no bearing on whether his records survive or not. After all, you can't pay a widow's pension (say) if the records are lost when the chap was killed. (This doesn't mean that some books didn't go out - the pay clerks have to be able to pay soldiers out in the field, e.g., but I'm sure that the main stuff was kept safe in Regimental / Corps staff offices or whatever they're called).

The MoD site gives a basic overview of what is kept. How much that amounts to, no-one can say until they see them. The issue, however, is that you might not get the lot unless your mother is next-of-kin (there must be a good chance that she is????) as some stuff is only released to the NoK. Again, how material that is, I have no idea.
Adrian
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Re: War Records help

Postby MaureenE » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:34 pm

I have seen comments that when Ministry of Defence records are applied for, you should specify that you want FULL records, otherwise you may only receive basic details.

Cheers
Maureen
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Re: War Records help

Postby C Verrill » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:55 am

AdrianB38 - many thanks, Your explanation has helped to focus my (non-military) mind a little on how records may have survived which I suppose it what I was after!

Maureen - your pointer on making sure we get FULL records is also helpful.

Both - Most appreciated - thanks again
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Re: War Records help

Postby loiseau22 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:05 pm

C Verrill wrote:My Great Uncle, James Worthington served in WW11 in the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps and I have established he died during the Dunkirk evacuation when he was on board the Lancastria.



Hi Christine,

I can't help with your query, but this is just to say that the Lancastria was not sunk at Dunkerque, but off Saint Nazaire, in the mouth of the river Loire (just south of the Brittany peninsula). It was indeed during one of the mass evacuations at the same time as Dunkerque, but several hundred miles away.
So I guess you have found his war grave somewhere along the Atlantic coast, either along the Brittany coast west of Saint Nazaire, or else along the shores of the Loire-Atlantique and Vendée départements. I have seen many such graves dotted about in the local cemeteries, near where the unfortunate victims were washed up.

Angela
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Re: War Records help

Postby Claire Price » Sat May 20, 2017 8:51 pm

Hello, I have a document copy of enlistment for my Great Grandfather, which seems to be the starting point for his life before this is just untraceable. The document itself is creating more questions that answers and I would appreciate some assistance with this please.
Such as, David Jones alias David Lloyd but all official records have him as Lloyd! Including his marriage certificate which clearly details him and his father as Lloyd but the enlistment record is signed as Jones?




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