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Probate record, but no death registration?

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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby MoVidger » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:03 am

Sylvia, junkers, and Mick - thanks for all the suggestions and advice. Hopefully, the 1980 death cert will be for my Georgina. If not, it's back to the drawing board. If one of her sons registered the death, they would be clueless as to her age. Both sons knew very little about their mother.

Sylvia - interesting to note your comment regarding deaths supposedly registered by coroners...

Another family member of mine sadly took his own life in the 1960s. I would imagine his death was a coroner's case ?? Either way, his death registration is on FreeBMD, etc.
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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby AntonyM » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:46 am

Deaths which go to a coroner's inquest should still be registered but not until after the inquest is concluded so may be months or occasionally years after the event.
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Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby brunes08 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:47 am

I agree with junkers. I have a relative who died in London yet probate was granted in Newcastle - may be because his children lived in the north and dealt with his affairs from there. I have several instances in my family where similar situations have occurred.
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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby ianbee » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:10 am

junkers wrote:You could ask the Registry Office for Camden if they have a death entry, dates of birth on death certificates can be a bit out especially if the person who registered the death didn't know how old the person was.

The address she was living at is in the City of Westminster, not Camden.
The death registration in question was in Westminster, not Camden.
There is no exact date of birth on the death certificate, according to the GRO indexes. D-o-b is given as "About 1901"
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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:18 pm

Up to and including 1966, the (English & Welsh) Probate Calendar recorded the place of death either explicitly or implicitly. The 1966 calendar says, at the start, "In every case in which the place of death is not specifically mentioned, it may be taken to be the same as the residence of the deceased." (Exact address? Not certain...)

Unfortunately, the 1973 Calendar (I'm looking on Ancestry, hence the gap), does not have this text at the front and I believe that the instruction no longer applies - i.e. all that we see is the residence. I believe that this is true because the 1966 Calendar first page explicitly shows lots of places of death and places of residence on the first page. The first page of the 1973 Calendar shows only one address per person, prefixed by "of", so (a) this must be the residence and (b) as it is hugely unlikely that all people on the first page died at home, the place of death must be omitted.

The 1973 Calendar also omits the executors, while the 1966 Calendar has them.
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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby ianbee » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:48 pm

No one will know exactly where Georgina Smith died until the certificate is seen. All that is known is that the death was in Westminster.
The probate calendars no longer gave place of death - when different from usual residence - from 1968. Ditto names of executors/administrators.
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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:04 pm

Thanks for the specific date Ian.

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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby ianbee » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:33 pm

Some good news?
Mo said that Georgina's birth date was 6 April 1893, but "she did like to shave quite a few years off her age"
Well, in the 1939 Register - which Mo has probably seen -
St Pancras
25/27 Carisbrook Hse (appears to be in Drummond Street, from the electoral register)
Fredk C Smith, born 2 July 93
Georgina Smith, born 6 Apr 97

1945 electoral register, Marylebone
Dorset Square and Regents Park No. 4 Ward (E)
Taunton Place
Flat 6 Boston House
Smith, Frederick C.
Smith, Georgina

Georgina Smith was still listed at Flat 6 Boston House in 1965 (last year available on ancestry). Also at that address was Isabel M. Pine.
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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby pete25 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:45 pm

Finding my 3 times great grandfather's death certificate was a pain and very costly.
After a long time searching, and purchasing a couple of death certificates, I eventually found his death certificate. This only came about after finding his burial details (found by chance).
My 2x great grandfather registered his death and seemed to give the wrong date of birth.
This caused me headaches but found the death certificate eventually...after a good few years.
I don't think my 3x great grandfather purposely knocked years of his age but I it's clear his son (my 2x great grandfather) didn't exactly know when his father was born which was 1806.
Hope you soon find the death certificate you are looking for.

All the best,

Pete.


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Re: Probate record, but no death registration?

Postby ianbee » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:48 pm

EDITED - so as not to annoy anybody (sorry)
Last electoral appearance of Frederick C Smith (sometimes Fred C, if the same person) at Flat 6 was 1963
Possible death?
Dec 1962 Marylebone 5d 383
Smith, Frederick C.
age 69
Last edited by ianbee on Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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