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Discover the true identity of my great grandmother

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Discover the true identity of my great grandmother

Postby Waddington » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:27 pm

I have a mystery – help, please! I am trying to find the true identity of my great grandmother – Annie Redpath.

My great grandparents were William John Hogg (1853 – 1907) and Annie Redpath (1860 – 1936), but their names do change!

William Hogg joined the Royal Navy in 1868, sadly, he RAN – deserted - in 1875 whilst in Australia – he was advertised with a £3 reward in the Victorian Gazette. He must have worked his passage back to the UK because he married on 9th June 1879 in London

This is where there is the mystery – William Hogg’s wife was Annie Hutt, a spinster – whose father was William Hutt, a police detective - deceased. But on every one of the birth certificates of her 10 children she claims that her maiden name was Annie Redpath. In our family she was always known as Annie Redpath.

On every census until 1901 (William died in 1907 when his brewers dray ran him over) they state that they were both born in St Luke’s in London – his name varies - in 1881 – it is Walter – in 1891 W John Hogg and in 1901 he is John W Hogg. I am not sure whether he was still in hiding from the authorities? Annie also appears to be in hiding as she claims to have been born in London, but my mother and her cousin both state that Annie was Scottish – my mother was 9 years old in 1936 when Annie died.

Her last child – my grandmother - was born in 1901 and she said that when her parents ‘first came to London they lived in the Green Yard’ – I have discover that the Gresham Almshouses were located there, so possibly they lived there for a while? Annie died in 1a Shepherdess Walk – St Luke’s Workhouse, or as it was in 1936, St Mathew’s Hospital. I managed to obtain a copy of her entry in the Creed Register from the London Metropolitan Archives and it showed that Annie’s date of birth was 12th January 1860. But I cannot find her under either Hutt or Redpath, either in the UK or Australia. I thought perhaps that she may have returned with William when he came back from Australia or she met him when he came ashore somewhere in the UK and then perhaps ran away with him to London?

There was a William Hutt who was a London City Police Detective, but he was alive and well and living in 13 Clifden Road in Hackney in 1881 with his family – including a daughter Anne who was 18 in 1881. Were there two London Police Detectives named William Hutt? I haven’t found another – yet. Did Annie Redpath know the family Hutt – had she been arrested by William Hutt? Was she Scottish? She wasn’t ‘on the run’ in 1871 but I haven’t discovered her in that census under either name. Any suggestions, please?

Thanks

Chris (Waddington)
Waddington
 
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Re: Discover the true identity of my great grandmother

Postby sdup26 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:17 pm

Annie's father may have been William Hutt, a policeman, but if her mother didn't marry him for some reason and stayed a Redpath, that could explain Annie's use of the Redpath surname. You can't find her supposed birth on 12th Jan 1860 under either name, but I'd be a bit cautious about someone born back then being able to state their actual birth date, never mind year. We have endless reminders of our birthday; driving licence, passport, and so on, but our ancestors had none of those, so maybe widen the search. Also, Annie may not have been her birth name - she could have started life as Ann/Anne, which in any case may have been her second name, rather than first.
William Hutt (born Loughton, Essex) married in October 1860, and was a tea dealer in the 1861 census. Then he became a policeman, as shown on the 1871 and subsequent censuses, and seems to be the only policeman of that name. Annie was born c1860, when he wasn't a policeman, so if he was her father, she'd have to have stayed in touch with him to know he'd become one. If he was planning to marry in 1860, and was later to become a police officer, would he stay in contact with his illegitimate daughter? Or was it Annie's mother who reported back to her daughter? You suggest that William and Annie had one eye out for authority, so being able to name a policeman as your father on your marriage certificate could be quite useful. It doesn't seem very likely that illegitimate Annie wanted to name a father on her marriage certificate so plucked an unusual name and occupation out of the air, and they just happened to be those of a real person.

There may be a Scottish connection, but family memories can be unreliable. I spent years chasing a 'French' ancestor (born in Paris, guaranteed, Grandmother knew her well...) only to discover she was born in Essex, and just happened to have a surname that could be pronounced as if French. Unfortunately, William and Annie had their own reasons for being economical with the truth, but possible links with Scotland are still worth checking.
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Re: Discover the true identity of my great grandmother

Postby ianbee » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:08 pm

I wish I could say I found this!
In fact, a spot of googling found an old query from 2008 on another forum. It's not about Annie, it's about Louisa Barnaby. It may turn out to be irrelevant, but it's interesting.

I've provided a transcript of the newspaper article from BNA (I've not lifted it from the other forum)
It's in both The Morning Chronicle and The Morning Advertiser, Monday 7 March 1859

Guildhall-Saturday
GUARDIANS OF PUBLIC MORALS.- William Hutt, a
constable in the City Police Force, was summoned before
Alderman Finnis and Alderman Humpherey, to show cause
why he should not be adjudged the putative father of an
illegitimate female child, of which the complainant was the
mother.
Louisa Barnaby, the complainant, said she lived in Mai-
denhead-court, Moor-lane. Her child was born on the 19th
of December last, in St. Saviours Union; and the defenfant,
William Hutt, was the father.
Cross-examined: She had not been intimate with a great
many policemen. The defendant was the only one. She
never had any intimacy with a policeman called Hodgson,
but she had seen him round St. Paul's at night when she
was looking for the young man Hutt.
William Hutt, the defendant, was then examined, and said
he had known the complainant about two years, but the in-
timacy which had existed between them ceased for about
eleven months, and recommenced on the 14th of April. She
told him she had been intimate with other men, and when he
said he could bring up several to prove it, she said there was
one he could not produce, as he was dead.
Police-constable Johnson, 134, was then called, and said
he knew the complainant, and had been intimate with her
at various times during the last three years. He had also
seen her with other policeman.
Alderman Humpherey said it was not very reputable for
either the defendant or the witness to get into the witness
box to make such statements.
Witness said he had been summoned and was obliged to
attend.
Alderman Finnis thought it was the duty of policemen
to bring all prostitutes plying their calling before the magis-
trates; but it would appear they made it their duty to cor-
rupt the morals of young girls. If twenty policemen
came up and swore the same thing it would not alter his
opinion of the case in the face of the defendant's admission
and the girl's oath. Even if it were true that she had been
intimate with so many, she must know best who was the
father of her child.
The order for 2s. 6d. per week was then made.
ianbee
 
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Re: Discover the true identity of my great grandmother

Postby sdup26 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:05 am

That's really interesting. William Hutt, police detective, who appears on the 1871/81 censuses, was b1836 in Loughton, Essex, and was married to Rachel. William Hutt b1836 in Loughton, Essex, and married to Rachel, was a tea dealer in 1861. Or at least, that's what the census says! If there's a report dated 1859 that refers to a William Hutt, policeman, is the 61/71/81 William Hutt a red herring?
sdup26
 
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Re: Discover the true identity of my great grandmother

Postby Waddington » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:48 pm

Hello Ianbee and sdup

than you so much for your thoughts and research on my elusive great grandmother. The information about the Guardians of Public Morals was fascinating; and the idea that the name Redpath may be from Annie's maternal side of the family is one to check. I will also look again at the birth records, but not put such faith in the 'known' date of birth.

Thanks again

Waddington (Chris)
Waddington
 
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Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:26 am


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