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Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

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Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby jimbo50 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:53 pm

Hello Everyone.
I have been striving to overcome a family tree full stop for a good few years now
I would ultimately like to find births, and parents and a marriage for Nathan Gibson and Grace Key/McKie both born Scotland all censuses, but are in England from 1825 until their deaths.
I also wondered if anyone could find any infill information.
I have deduced that Nathan might possibly have been a part of The 'road improving' John McAdam's organisation based in Kirkcudbright. They lived on land owned by him at Disdow in early 1820s.
He undertook many road contracts throughout England and even America with his new system of graduated stone roads.
My family are on the scene for new Thames bridges in Kingston and Staines. Laleham is huge gravel resource. Horley was on route for Brighton Railway line opened 1841, although they rented a cottage with five small fields for a few years so probably not a navvy.
I have found the following, concerning them;

1820 Daughter Sarah baptised Girthon Kirkcudbright father Nathan Gibson mother Grace Key of Disdow.
1823 Daughter Margaret Muncaster baptised Girthon Kirkcudbright father Nathan Gibson mother Grace McKie of Disdow. No further record found for Margaret.
1825 Son David born Laleham Middlesex baptised Kingston Surrey (Heathen Street Independent Church) parents Nathaniel & Grace Gibson. No further record found for David.
1829 Daughter Catherine baptised Laleham Middlesex – Never seen record.
1830 Son William baptised Kingston Surrey (Heathen Street Independent Church) parents Nathaniel & Grace Gibson.
1835 Son Jacob born per 1841 census parents Nathan & Grace Gibson. Was he Baptised ?
1836 Son John baptised Chertsey Surrey – Never seen record.
1841 census - Horley Surrey- Nathan 45(exgavator), Grace 45, Catholine 12, William 11, Jacob 6, John 4, plus 3 exgavator lodgers.
1843 Horley - Marriage Dau. Sarah Gibson to John Robinson. Nathaniel Gibson Labourer father of bride.
1851 census Folkestone Kent- Nathan (gardener), Grace, William, Jacob, John
1851 census Folkestone Kent- married daughters Catherine and Sarah with their families living next door.
1861 census Folkestone Kent – Nathan 68 Ag Lab, Grace 66, John 23 sailor.
1870 Grace Gibson dies aged 77 at Prospect Place Folkestone Charlotte Rogers in attendance.
1871 census – Nathan 78 living with his daughter Catherine Dibbs 44, in Deptford Kent.
1879 Nathan Gibson dies aged 87 June 1879, Greenwich 1d 566
Any information will be so welcome. Thanks
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby Sylcec » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:27 pm

Hi Jimbo - an initial thought bubble on your problem. Despite the 1820 and 1823 baptisms in Girthon, and noting the place of baptism of Nathan and Grace's children in England, it seems probable that they may NOT always have been members of the established Church of Scotland (Presbyterian), clearly not Roman Catholic either. Nor would they have belonged to an Episcopal Church, or it could be expected that they would transfer to Church of England in England. Hence they could have been members of one of the numerous break-away dissenting churches/chapels in Scotland. Have you checked on what other groups may have been around in the Girthon area?
Have you consulted the 1st edition of "Statistical Account of Scotland"? http://www.nls.uk/family-history/local-history
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby ianbee » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:11 pm

Baptism in Laleham was 1827
Novr 18
Catherine
parents Nathaniel + Grace Gibson
abode Laleham
father a Labourer

Chertsey (St Peter)
1833
Baptized 28th April
Born Feby 1st
Jacob
parents Nathan + Grace Gibson
abode Chertsey
father a Labourer

1836
Baptized 10th July
Born May 29th
John
parents Nathaniel + Grace Gibson
abode Chertsey Lyne
father a Labourer
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby rfitzgerald1963 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:38 am

sorry not found anything new, but did spot that you have the family in Horley in 1841 they were in Horne, not that far away only about 5-6 miles


Regards
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby jimbo50 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:44 pm

Hi Sylcec. Thank you very much for your reply. I have just now read the Girthon Parish report and it's fascinating reading. I shall go on to read the surrounding parishes at leisure.
It says the following about Girthon;
'The church is small and extremely inconvenient for the bulk of the inhabitants. The weekly collections, fines for irregularities, etc. amount to about 25/- a year. Paupers to the number of ten are assisted therewith.'
Then later ; 'Six M'Millanites excepted the tenants and cottagers are all Prefbyterians. Much praife is due to their religious and moral conduct.'
Several things spring to mind to look for
a) What are M'Millanites ?
b) Presbyterian fines usually mean a kirk session or something and maybe Records.
I don't remember Scotlands People website having those available when I was looking.
c)Might Nathan and Grace have done something to offend the church as there doesn't seem to
be a marriage ?

I did see once a possible Grace McKie (from Penninghame) who married an Andrew Adams 1816 in Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright. There doesn't seem to be further trace of a couple with those names. Although in 1841 there is an Andrew Adams with an Elizabeth McKie a little distance away.

Ianbee - has kindly waved his magic wand and I've got some corrections to do with regard to baptisms and dates of birth. Thank you Ianbee, I wish I knew how you do it.
I think that those three were Church of England baptisms.
The huge coincidence is that two of my children were born at St Peter's hospital in Chertsey 150 years later on.
Richard, thank you for that, Horne in the 1841 census, I'll correct it.
I actually visited the field in 2007, and the cottage was demolished in the 1850s, but the well still remained, a hole in the field covered with corrugated iron sheets to stop the cattle falling in. The fields were still exactly as per the tithe map 1840, which Mr Peter Cox of Horley Family History society showed me.
Kindest Regards to the three of you.
Jim
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby ermin79 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:19 pm

M'Millanites appear to be McMillanites or MacMillanites- a group of Covenanters.
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/macmillanite

The group had split from the established church in 1689 and Rev McMillan / MacMillan started to minister for them in 1706.

https://drmarkjardine.wordpress.com/201 ... -scotland/

There is an e-version online of the Reverend M[a]cmillan's records of baptisms and marriages (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... =1up;seq=9) performed by him but obviously this is several decades before the time period you are looking for as it only runs to 1751. However your couple might have been married by a similiar minister, which could explain the lack of record and might also mean that if a record was made, it was probably kept in a similar fashion to that above (the ministers personal notebook) and may no longer exist.

Apologies as it may not get you anywhere with your search, but is an interesting topic to read about.
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby jimbo50 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:03 pm

Hiya ermin79.
That's an amazing record, I've only read up to page 22. Do you know if all of these sorts of records are digitized and available in the mainstream searches online ?
I remember being in Louisiana not long ago and seeing a travelling preacher in a gaudy van, also quite commercial and with religious stuff for sale. I really don't want to judge anyone , but it seemed so far removed from my idea of church. Yet here he is, travelling round Scotland in the 18c. He must have been so driven to do that. Cheers. Jim
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby Sylcec » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:59 pm

Now - be alert as the following comments are made from memory and without any reference attached! Although Church of England registers of baptism, marriage and burial are kept by and belong to the parish, my understanding is that some, maybe, Free Church of Scotland, registers were the property of the minister who took his registers with him when he moved settlements. This situation may have applied to various dissenting groups where the minister travelled.
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby runmerry » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:41 pm

Post 1700 Reformation Churches in Scotland
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/c ... story.html

There is also an explanation of O.P.R. & C.P.R. records on the Scotland People website
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Conte ... ?r=554&613

& a wiki on Family Search
https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Scotla ... nion_Lists

Regards
Jen
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Re: Jimbo's Gibson Family Help Newspapers Other ?

Postby jimbo50 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:44 am

Thank you Sylcec and Jen for your replies. It's quite disheartening though to discover that only 30% or so registrations actually occurred. Then a good few of those in books carried around by the preacher and probably lost in time. Jen, it's very surprising to learn of so many branches and breakaways from the mainstream church in the chart on the first link. I wonder who succeeded Mr McMillan as preacher, when he stopped. Jim
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