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Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

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Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

Postby rfitzgerald1963 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:10 am

I am interested in trying to find the title deeds for a property that one of my ancestors owned in Westminster, i am hoping it might provide some information on him and his family. does anyone know where if its possible you can see old title deeds? the deeds i am looking for are for The Red Lion at 48 Parliament Street, Westminster, the dates are from around 1790 - 1855.


Thanks


Richard
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Re: Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

Postby jimbo50 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:36 pm

Hiya. Land Registry do deeds, they're £7 per document, you may have multi documents though.
Beware Ad sites, go through Gov.uk sites.
The originals I believe have been issued out to the freeholders as they don't seem to keep them any more.
If the property changed hands in the recent past it's likely they're in the hands of the owners.
It is my experience that the will usually contains more family info than title deeds.
Unless you want to know the position, dimensions, borders etc.
They might tell you the owner's names and more about the history of the land ie when it was part of a farm.
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Re: Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

Postby rfitzgerald1963 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:24 pm

Thanks Jimbo will try to get the will,
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Re: Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

Postby peter kent » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:35 pm

You certainly do need the will.

Another message suggests you're interested in the licensee. What makes you believe he owned the property? It would have been fairly unusual for a publican to actually own the pub. After all, not many people owned the homes they lived in.

One very easy thing to do is to search out the licensing register for the late 19th century. Too late for your man but information about ownership of the property could be interesting. I only suggest that because it's easy (subject to survival of the registers).

You're probably aware of the 19th century gap in licensing records. I don't know how informative the early ones were about ownership.
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Re: Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

Postby rfitzgerald1963 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:26 pm

Thanks, the reason I am interested in the deeds is that in his will William mentions leasing the pub for a period and then selling it after his death which I believe would mean it is likely he owned the building. I know it is not very usual but i am hoping that the deed might have details of his parentage as I cannot find any record of him as I do not know who he married so it is difficult to find a marriage certificate which might have his father's details.

If anyone is able to help with the marriage (this was not too my 4x Great Grandmother) then that would be brilliant.


Thanks

Richard
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Re: Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

Postby junkers » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:04 pm

You might find the deeds at the London Metropolitan Archives, there used to be the Middlesex Deeds Registry which they cover, but as the Fullers company own the pub now then they may still have them, perhaps they may be able to help you.
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Re: Title Deeds 1790-1855 - where to find them??

Postby tessacate » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:10 am

Hi there

If you look at the Land Tax Records for London you will be able to tell whether he owned the pub or leased the property. In Westminster it is likely to be the latter given successive Dukes of Westminster (who have owned the land for several hundred years) have always refused to sell any of the land despite pressure to do so. He may well have owned the business, just not the land on which it was located. From these records you should be able to determine when he first obtained the business.

I suggest you search the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) records on Ancestry at:

www.ancestry.co.uk/lma

By typing in that address specifically in your web browser, you will go straight to their LMA records which I find much easier than wading through the huge list of search returns from just a general search.

The City of Westminster Archives might also have relevant information for you. The Grosvenor family's (i.e. the Duke of Westminster) estate records are documented in the National Archives. Discovery catalogue and the search results will tell you where particular records are held e.g. rent records for the pub.

Finally, don't forget UK Pub History at www.pubshistory.com which might have some old photos or sketch of the pub in earlier times as well as other details about the pub.

Happy hunting.
Tessacate :)
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