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Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

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Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby jomeswes » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:54 pm

My brother and I are looking for the mother of our illegitimate great-grand father. In a court appearance she called herself Phoebe Mc Innes, but on the 1851 census is named Elizabeth Mc Innes.
She was born in 1843 in Marylebone, Middlesex. Her father was William and her mother Harriett.
I found a possible burial; 1873 Victoria Park Cemetery aged 30 years where she is called Phoebe Elizabeth Mc Innes. But this is contradicted by the G.R.O death entry which records her age as 41 years, which is 11 years older, and her name as 'Phebe' (sic).
Our problem is we cannot find any other trace of her or her child born in 1865. The main cause appears to be transcription error. The 1851 census on Ancestry has recorded her as Elizabeth Freis.
Family Search for the same census entry has her as Elizabeth Mc James.
For her brother and his family in 1881 Ancestry has recorded the surname as Mc Inns.
My brother has seen others recorded as Mc Junes and Mc Janes. It is quite a problem.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby jimbo50 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:56 pm

Hiya. I've just had a quick look on FreeBMD and there is a 'female' McInnes born 1842 in marylebone.
None in 1843.
You have ommitted your Grandfather's name(s). That might give someone a clue. Cheers. Jim
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby jomeswes » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:47 pm

Thanks for the information Jim, that could prove useful, but we are most eager to find said McInnes on the 1871 census and therein lies our problem. Regards John.
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby ianbee » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:07 pm

jimbo50 wrote:You have ommitted your Grandfather's name(s). That might give someone a clue.

It would certainly help.
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby sdup26 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:37 pm

No luck yet with Elizabeth/Phoebe in 1871, but as her father and sister Matilda were born in Scotland, have you checked the 1871 Scotland census?

As to the burial record for Phoebe Elizabeth, I think the age of 41 in the GRO record may be an error, perhaps by the person giving the information. The original record says Phoebe Elizabeth McInnes, aged 30, died at Homerton Fever Hospital on 22 March 1873. Buried at Victoria Park Cemetery, Hackney.
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby jimbo50 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:10 pm

Was your Gt Grandfathers name Henry ? if so is this her;

1871 RG10/659 LAMBETH - 5 UPPER MARSH LAMBETH
MACKENZIE Phoebe Head W F 31 General Dealer Middlesex - Stepney
MACKENZIE Arthur H Son - M 9 Middlesex - St Clement
MACKENZIE Henry J Son - M 6 Middlesex - St Martin
MACKENZIE Phoebe Dau - F 4 Surrey - Lambeth
MACKENZIE Alexander Son - M 2 Surrey - Lambeth
SCUTTLE Ellen Boardr U F 26 Needlewoman Surrey - Southwark

If we're looking for a name that is so easy to misspell or misread, then your Gt Grandfather's name would probably give another fixed point to search with.
Jim
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby sdup26 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:41 am

Not sure about that one jimbo. The post refers to an 'illegitimate' son born to Phoebe/Elizabeth. The Phoebe on the 1871 census married Alfred Henry Joseph Mackenzie in 1860, her maiden name Shepherd. Alfred Henry died in 1870, and the children listed with widowed Phoebe in 1871 were all legitimate.
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby jimbo50 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:13 am

OK Sdup, Fair Cop. I am intrigued to know how you get all that thorough info. I thought it would only arrive on certificates. Cheers. Jim
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Re: Great-grand mother? of Marylebone 1843-HELP!

Postby sdup26 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:04 pm

It looked like a good call - you could well have found the right Phoebe, who could have been calling herself 'widow' in 1871 to explain away the children. But the 1861 census has a Phoebe Mackenzie b1840 in Stepney, with husband Alfred Henry Mackenzie, a cheesemonger's assistant b 1841 in Clement Danes. So tried marriages - Alfred Henry Mackenzie married Phoebe Shepherd in 1860. Then she's on 1871 as a widow, and another search showed Alfred died in 1870.
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