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Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

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Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby deke » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:50 pm

Despite being only two generations back I can find very little, and have no photos.
Born 1898 Isleworth, Middlesex
Parents Arthur John and Emily (Fuller)
Siblings Jessie, Edith, Elsie, Alberta, Florence, Arthur John, Joseph George.
Have them in the 1911 census
Harry and Joseph may have been in care in their early years
Arthur joined the navy
Married Gladys Groves 1926
No war record for Harry
Lived in Brentford with Gladys until 1937, was in Richmond 1942, separated from Gladys, and working in munitions.
All help very gratefully received.


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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby brunes08 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:51 am

I have had a hunt for your family but have found it extremely difficult. Although I have seen birth registrations for the children's names you mention, I cannot find the family together in the 1901 or the 1911 census. I cannot find a marriage for the parents either. You say you have them on the 1911 census - I could only find individual names of the parents and children on different returns so cannot say whether they are your family or not. Could you tell us which census returns you have found - the address, for example. Have you obtained any birth certificates or baptism records? This may help us to help you sort this out.
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby sdup26 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:24 am

I think I see them in 1901 in Isleworth:
Arthur 1863, shopkeeper, b Laleham, Mdx, Emily 1866 b Thorpe, Surrey, and children Jessie 1885, Bertha 1887, Florence 1881, Elsie 1893, Arthur 1896, Harry 1898, and Joe 1899, all born Isleworth.

Like brunes08, I can't find them all together in 1911. Can you give us the address? Can you also be more specific about what you want to know? Do you want to go back to find out more about Arthur and Emily's birth families, or do you want to know more about Henry (Harry) James' siblings?
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby deke » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:59 am

Thank you sdup26 and brunes08, I will try to answer both your questions in one go. Apologies if I am not being very helpful but I know so little.
My main goal is to find more about Harry (my GF) and his siblings. We have no contact currently with that side of the family and if I can find some living relatives maybe there may be a wedding photo or suchlike so I can finally see what Harry looked like. Maybe some cousins can also just let me know more about the family.
I have been fairly successful in finding out more about Arthur John Scott and Emily Fuller's roots, except for the Scott link to Scotland which is not proven.
In 1901 the whole family were together [Middlesex, Isleworth, District 05, 83, 115]
I have Arthur, John (Arthur John), and Harry (Henry James) in 1911 [Middlesex, Brentford, 56, 229] not with Emily or the girls as I believe AJ and Emily were separated by then. Which may explain why I thought the boys were in care at some point.
Odd pieces of information include the fact that Harry worked for a while for the Gaslight & Coke Company, and that he allegedly was a good single skuller. I also found a record for a HJ Scott from Brentford who volunteered in 1915 with the Middx regiment - my Harry would have been underage but based on here say I would have put it past him to join up!
This has been driving me mad since I was a teenager - I do so hope you can help.
deke
 
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby sdup26 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:09 am

Arthur John Scott married Emily Caroline M Fuller, JQ 1884 Staines 3a 2
There is a parish marriage entry for Arthur John Scott, father John, to Emily Caroline Minnie Fuller, 1884 at St Matthew, Ashford, Surrey.
Sorry - added this before seeing your post giving details of what you want to find.
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby brunes08 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:25 pm

You mention a Harry enlisting in 1915. I haven't looked your reference up but as a point of interest a cousin of my father enlisted in 1914 when he was underage. He was found out after three months service and promptly discharged. However he re-enlisted in 1916. It might be worth following up.
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby sdup26 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:00 pm

One problem is whether 'Harry' used that name on official documents, or his full birth name of Henry James Scott. For instance, in the 1939 Register, there's a Henry J Scott living in Duckett Road, Hornsey, Middlesex. He was married, although no wife with him, and he was a GPO worker.
From 1922-1948, there are various Middlesex marriages for men called Henry J Scott or Henry Scott, and also a Harry J Scott, who married Amelia Tedder in Edmonton in 1938. But of course, Harry may have lived outside Middlesex, so it may be none of those. Was Harry your paternal grandfather? If so, do you have your own father's birth certificate, which should give the name of his mother?

Do you subscribe to ancestry? There are a couple of family trees on the site which include Henry 'Harry' James Scott, but they're Private so I can't access them. As a subscriber, you could send a message to the tree owners introducing yourself and asking for their help with your search.
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby deke » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:54 pm

His birth certificate and marriage certificate both use his full name. His mother was Emily Caroline Minnie (Fuller). But the 1911 census, and the newspaper article about his 1942 court appearance (Brentford Court) both name him as Harry Scott.
1927-1937 the electoral roll has him as Henry James, but the last piece of information I have about him, the newspaper article names him as Harry.
I believe he was separated from Gladys Irene (Groves) some time between 1937 and 1942. The article names him as Harry Scott of Warrington Road, Richmond, as the husband of Gladys, with two children in Brentford and one in Richmond. He stated that he had to provide a home for the woman (and child?) he lived with in Richmond, and also that he worked in munitions.
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby sdup26 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:57 pm

Gladys Irene Scott seems to be living in Brentford in 1939 (33, Avenue Road). The transcription says she was widowed, but the original record clearly has M for married after her name. Her occupation is 'unpaid domestic duties' - housework! At the same address is Albert Toller b1905, unmarried, a moulder in rubber work. Another resident of the house is someone whose record is closed because they were born less than a hundred years ago, so possibly one of her children? I still haven't found Harry in 1939, either in Warrington Road, Richmond, or in Brentford.
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Re: Brickwall: Harry (Henry James) Scott

Postby ianbee » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:44 pm

Can I ask you -
Do you have Henry's date of birth to hand?
When did Gladys die?

This is totally speculative without knowing those two things!
Henry James Scott's birth seems to have been registered June qtr 1898, Brentford
Gladys Irene Groves, June qtr 1902, Brentford

There is a death in Dec 1955, Paddington, of a Gladys I Scott, age 53.
If that is Henry's wife, and they were not divorced, then he would now be free to remarry.
Marriage
March 1957 Surrey N. (covers Richmond, Kingston, etc) 5g 929
Scott, Mary H. - spouse Scott
Scott, Henry J. -spouse Scott

Now, was her name Scott by birth, former marriage, or because she had been living for years as Mrs Henry J Scott?

Death
June 1978 Kingston T.
Scott, Henry J.
d-o-b
28 Feb 1900
(two years out, and I don't know your chaps d-o-b!)

Burial at Richmond Cemetery, 6 June 1978
Henry James Scott, age 78

Three others in the same grave, particularly
Mary Helen Scott, buried 20 June 1985. Age was 74
Death registered in Richmond, June 1985. Gives d-o-b as 29 Nov 1909 (making her 75)

See electoral registers for Richmond 1964/5 (on ancestry)
If this is them, then there is a possible connected birth registration in Surrey N.E. (district for Richmond etc 1934-48) in December qtr 1940, vol 2a page 201 (indexed under two surnames)
But I can't tie that other surname - Grace - to Mary Helen.
Ian
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