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Training ship 'Exmouth'

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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby MoVidger » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:41 pm

Hi Ian - many thanks for the Robinson trail you've provided me. I would never have thought to look for either lad in Surrey. I kept concentrating on the Greenwich and Woolwich areas instead. :oops:

I strongly believe the 1895 Woolwich Road workhouse record relates to both boys. Mum's address of Reaston Street is/was classified as Deptford. And William states he was Deptford born in the 1911 census. So looks like a good fit.

Tried looking for any Robinson's in the 1891 and 1901 census on Reaston Street, but haven't spotted anyone yet. No idea who their mum was. On his 1912 marriage record, William stated that his father was named "Arthur" (painter), but that could be fictitious.

Yes, William's age does seem a bit "out" when compared to the 1939 Register. But considering his origins, he might not have known his correct birth year.

In the LMA catalogue, it indicated the Greenwich Board of Guardians records you mentioned can be found on Ancestry. I've tried searching for them in the Ancestry card catalogue, but with no success. Will have another look again.
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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby ianbee » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:26 pm

Hi Mo
Yes you are right, they are on ancestry
London, England, Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records, 1430-1930
"Browse this collection" (small boxes on right hand side)
Borough - Greenwich
Parish/Poor Law Union - Greenwich
Record Type - Admission and Discharge
Schools and Children, 1895-1901
Schools and Children, 1901-1902
(a little more than half way down)
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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby JaneyH » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:53 pm

I have only a cursory knowledge of London records, given that most of my ancestors hailed from rural areas of England. However I've recently been helping my sister's partner with his family history, some of which is based in London. What I've found is that inner London workhouses and Poor Law Unions (in this case Shoreditch) established children's homes outside London (in this case Hornchurch in Essex). Might this explain the Greenwich / Sutton link?


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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby MoVidger » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:26 am

Janey - yes it appears Sutton's South Metropolitan District School educated poor children from the Woolwich and Greenwich areas, etc. The school closed in 1902, but the facility was used for other purposes for many years.

Ian - thanks again for helping me navigate those two record sets on Ancestry. I didn't see any additional information on them, though. I was hoping the records contained the mother's name, but no such luck. I'm wondering if both son's births were registered under her maiden name (whatever that might be). Then again, Robinson might be her maiden name. I'll do some more digging into that.

It's a shame that neither the 1891 or 1901 census yielded a Robinson living at Reaston Street. Mum was probably there for only a fleeting moment circa 1895. In any event, I'll continue to search for both lads in the 1891 census...
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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby brunes08 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:04 pm

I was just looking at a post in the Useful Resources section regarding children's homes. Bear with me on this! On the list on the left hand side of the page near the bottom, you will see Training Ships. Remembering your post, I had a peep. The article mentions the Exmouth so may be worth your while going to the site on www.childrenshomes.org.uk .
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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby MoVidger » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:38 pm

Thanks brunes08 for the link - it was very interesting reading.

I've just seen a brief tidbit in the Blackheath Gazette (9 Nov 1894) under the title "Juvenile Delinquents Birched". It states several boys, including a John Allen (12) of 33 Reaston Street, stole a live duck and received four strokes each with the birch rod.

I have no clue who John Allen was, but his address of 33 Reaston Street is where the Robinson boys' mother was living in 1895 when she turned her boys over to the Woolwich Road workhouse.

Later in Dec 1897, a George Allen (11) and Charles Brooks (8) of Reaston Street were charged with stealing from a shop till. George and John appear to be brothers, and Charles is their nephew ??

Sounds like 33 Reaston Street, Deptford in the mid-1890s was an "interesting" address. But it's trying to work out the Robinson family's connection to it. I wonder if their mum was related to the Allen family?
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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby MoVidger » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:47 pm

Bit of an update: I may have located Arthur's mum and siblings in an earlier workhouse record:

Admission date: 6 Oct 1888
Greenwich workhouse (Woolwich Road)
Mary Robinson, age 29, wife of James a butler, 49 Edric Road (removable)
Theresa, age 5
Arthur, age 2
Albert, age 3 weeks

No mention of brother William, but various records give his birth year as 1888 to 1891.

I'm 99% certain this is the family in question. As mentioned in previous replies, Arthur and William's mum gives an address of 33 Reaston Street (Deptford/New Cross) when the lads are admitted to the workhouse in 1895. This address belongs to the family of Walter C. and Margaret Allen at that time. They were still living at this address in 1901.

In 1891, the Allen's are residing at 23 Edric Road . So Mary Robinson has some sort of connection to the Allen's, but I haven't worked it out yet. Mary is too old to be their daughter.

I've been trying to locate birth records for the 3 children named above, but I doubt that "Robinson" is their actual name. I presume that son Albert would be Greenwich born, if not Arthur and Theresa, as well. I haven't found a marriage record for a James Robinson (butler) to anyone named Mary circa 1880 to 1888 either.

So the plot thickens...
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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby ianbee » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:06 pm

Hi Mo
Religious Creed register for Greenwich Infirmary
Admitted 6 Oct 1888, from St Pauls
Mary Robinson, 29
creed - EC
nearest known relative - Mother 17 Edric Road
Discharged 3.11.88

But - the problem is Arthur, who I think is the one just born
Admitted 22 Oct 1888, from St Pauls
Arthur Robinson, 2 wks
creed - EC
relative - Mother in Infirmary
Dead 24.10.88

Death, Dec 1888 Greenwich 1d 637
Robinson, Arthur
age 0

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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby ianbee » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:29 pm

This is the family I looked at before, probably not who you are wanting, but I'll throw it in.
William Robinson, bap St Jude, Peckham, 9 October 1890
born 10 Sept 1890
parents Henry + Harriet
abode 62 Nutcroft Road
father a Painter

Arthur Robinson, bap St Jude, Peckham, 28 April 1892
born Nov 1887
parents Henry Edward + Harriet Jane
abode 62 Nutcroft Road
father a Painter

So we can see them at that address in 1891 (Camberwell, piece 481 folio 41 page 16)
Another son, Alfred, bap St Judes, 21.1.1895, born 23 Sep 1892
Abode 31 Loder Street
Possible birth registrations suggest that the mother was Newman.
No idea what happened to any of them.

Loder Street is still on the map today, on google we can see that it is the other side of New Cross Road from Reaston Street (which is not far away)
Unfortunately it's in Camberwell, not Deptford/Greenwich Union
And William's d-o-b is not like the one he gives in 1939
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Re: Training ship 'Exmouth'

Postby MoVidger » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:28 pm

Hi Ian - thanks very much for the extra research! I hadn't seen the mother's discharge record for 3 Nov, but I did find the same record for Theresa and Albert (listed as age 3). So I began to question if Arthur was still alive, and if the boys' ages could have been switched on the 6 Oct record.

So with baby Arthur dead (from that family), it won't be the family I'm searching for. I reckon the Edric Road addresses were just a coincidence. But the 33 Reaston Street address connection for 1894/95 is still good.

I've spent this last week trying to locate Arthur and William's birth records for the Greenwich area, but without knowing their mum's name or where they are in 1891, it's like clutching at straws. There's always the possibility the boys weren't together in the 1891 census. I still doubt they were registered under the name Robinson.

BTW, the records for the family in Peckham look interesting, but William's birth details are off. Also, his father was "Arthur" (painter, deceased) - according to his 1912 marriage cert. Unless he didn't know his father's name, and used his brother's name instead ??

I've always wondered if brother Arthur joined the military after his stint on the TS Exmouth? If so, it would be after 1904.

There is a brief Family Search WO 363 record dated 1915 for an Arthur Robinson (b 1886). He's with the Royal Engineers - Inland Water Transport. Residence: Grays, Essex (where the TS Exmouth was). Military regiment: 135645 However, I've not been able to locate the corresponding record on Ancestry (and my annual sub expired the other day). :(
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