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Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:21 pm

If I remember correctly, Joseph named a "William Holmes" for father on his 2nd marriage record. That's what stopped me from looking at him more seriously for my Joseph. Having said that, the father's occupation was "wool comber" - also Jonathan's occupation.
No, I don't have the marriage record for Joseph's 1st marriage to Ann. I was tempted to order it during the GRO pdf pilot phase period, but changed my mind.

I've searched for that Joseph's attestation papers on FMP, but there's only a brief entry which gives his service number (450). That's it, as far as I can see. This Joseph indicates Bradford for his birthplace on census records. But I do have a gut feeling that my Joseph was Bradford born, too.

In the meantime, I will cross-reference those Horton addresses for any connection between soldier Joseph and the Holmes brothers.
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby ianbee » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:20 pm

Has that Bradford 1841 census eumerator rounded down the ages of anyone older than 5, rather than 15?
And could Joseph, 16 in 1851, have been born before Elizabeth/Betty Taylor married Jonathan Holmes? There's a baptism of a Joseph Taylor in January 1835 at the Independent Chapel, Stainland, south of Halifax, but I haven't seen the full details.
Ian
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Hi Ian - the 1841 census appears to have added 4 years to Betty's age. Her age at death was 54 in 1869 (so probable birth year 1815). The 1841 census has both Joseph and Abraham as 5 years old, which can't be correct. I put Abraham as born either late 1836 or early 1837.

I don't know husband Jonathan's actual birth year, so can't tell if 25 is correct for him in 1841. No idea which area of Yorkshire he's from either, as he goes missing after 1847.

The 1835 baptism for 'Joseph Taylor' looks very interesting. FMP record states mother is an Elizabeth Taylor and baby was born in the 'poor house'. Hmm.

The July 1835 marriage in Shipley Church (Bradford) is correct. So does that mean Betty moved up to Bradford by summer 1835 (with baby son Joseph)? :?
Last edited by MoVidger on Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby ianbee » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:05 pm

Hi Mo
I've only seen the index record on Family Search, it could be them, but I don't really know! Just thinking that if Abraham was about 5 in 1841, it could be a tight squeeze to get Joseph in after the July 1835 marriage.
Have you found baptisms of any of the children?
Ian
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:23 pm

I like the fact the FMP baptism record indicates an Elizabeth for the mother. I have Bob Holmes' 1847 birth cert - registered by Jonathan, mother Betty (nee Taylor). However, I haven't found baptism records for Abraham or Joseph Holmes. But your 1835 baptism find is definitely food for thought...

If Joseph Holmes is actually the Joseph Taylor you found, could he have reverted to Taylor for census records after 1851? I will check this scenario out this weekend.
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby ianbee » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:29 pm

Hi Mo
Stainland Chapel near Hailfax -
Joseph Taylor was one of three illegitimate children "Baptised Poor House", 29 January 1835. Residence for all three is given as Stainland. Seems that there was a workhouse there in 1835.

Exciting, Elizabeth is in a Quarter Sessions record (attached). Names the father of Joseph.
Ian
Attachments
Elizabeth Taylor Quarter Sessions 1835.jpg
Elizabeth Taylor Quarter Sessions 1835.jpg (124.23 KiB) Viewed 1188 times
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:49 pm

Hi Ian - what a brilliant find! Was that image from Ancestry or FMP? So Jonathan's residence was Bradford, but Elizabeth/Betty has the child in Stainland. I wonder if that puts Jonathan in the Halifax area pre-1835, or did Elizabeth venture up to Bradford and meet him there? I reckon we might never know.

So the record suggests that Jonathan was probably Bradford born (he won't be the JH born in Haworth, though). I've searched for any Elizabeth's/Betty's (Taylor) born in or near Stainland c1815, but haven't seen anything spring up yet. (Can't find a baptism for son Abraham c1836/37 either).

Given the circumstances of Joseph's birth, it might explain why Jonathan disappears after 1847. He obviously married Elizabeth and they had several more children, but perhaps he wanted out of the marriage after 10-15 years...??

Many thanks for that record Ian!! :D
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby ianbee » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:17 pm

Hi Mo
The assizes record is on ancestry.
I had the same thoughts about Jonathan as yourself. His later whereabouts is certainly a big mystery. The poor law authorities in Halifax were probably responsible for chasing him up for maintenance payments. But whether he married Betty somewhat reluctantly or not is something we can't know!
Ian
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