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Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby sdup26 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:03 am

I've been wondering about William. If he appears on Mary and Bob's marriage certs as a witness, it seems reasonable to suppose he's a family member. Possibly a close one, as he seems to have been 'standing in' for Jonathan, who you'd think would normally witness the marriages of his children. As with Joseph, looking for a William Holmes in the Bradford area is needle in haystack time. We haven't got Jonathan on the 1851 census, where he might have specified where in Yorkshire he was born, so as we don't know, I offer this as a long shot:
Bpt Jonathan Holmes 1813 Haworth, F Jonathan, weaver, mother Susan
Bpt William Holmes 1815 Haworth, F William, weaver, mother Susan

And there's this, which I haven't yet followed up, so will leave it with you: 1861, Westgate, Wakefield, West Yorks, household of Margaret Rathwell
Joseph Holmes, married, aged 24 (1837), servant, hairdresser, born Bradford
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:41 pm

Hi sdup26 - thanks for the suggestions. I researched the Joseph Holmes living in Wakefield, but he's not my JH. That Joseph's father was John (also a hairdresser). And the Briley family lodging with the Holmes' in 1851 don't appear to have any family connection. Interestingly, Thomas Briley emigrated to NZ with his wife and kids in 1873/74. Their ship sank, but all the passengers survived.

I'm working on the assumption that Joseph either emigrated or passed away before 1861. I have yet to see a likely Joseph Holmes (born Halifax) in any UK census after 1851. Unless that census incorrectly listed his birthplace as Halifax. To date, I've not located a likely birth record for a Joseph Holmes born in Halifax circa 1835-ish. Perhaps he was born in Bradford.
Last edited by MoVidger on Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby richaldis » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:57 am

Have you considered he might have been in prison for some of this time? I have an ancestor who had two families in different villages and when he wasn't with one or the other (and having children) he was locked up for petty theft,violent behaviour or (eventually) bigamy.
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:24 pm

Yes, I've been searching for Jonathan and son Joseph in prison records, as well. But nothing so far.

Interestingly, Jonathan's grandson is in a Philadelphia prison in 1910. And a cousin-in-law of the grandson (another emigrant) was in another Philadelphia prison in 1930.
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:21 pm

A brief update regarding my search for Jonathan Holmes. Today I received a PDF death certificate for a Jonathan Holmes. I'm not convinced he's the JH I'm looking for, due to the address and occupation.

Name: Jonathan Holmes (age 44)
Date of death: 21 Sept 1850
Address: Moor End, Shipley (Bradford)
Profession: Warp Dresser

In the 1851 census, there is a Miriam Holmes (age 35, widow) lodging at Moor End. The fellow in the death cert is probably her husband.

So the JH I'm searching for appears to be still "in the wind" at this point. Thanks to the new GRO online index, the 1850 death above was the most likely death, based on approximate age.

Jonathan's wife Elizabeth (Betty) Holmes died on 8 Oct 1869. Her address was Gower Street, Horton, Bradford. Her son Bob Holmes was the informant.

Interestingly, Elizabeth's death certificate doesn't state that she was a "widow" either.

So Jonathan, if still alive in 1869, didn't register her death. The search for Jonathan (and his son Joseph) continues...
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby sdup26 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:36 pm

I can't find Joseph in 1861 (thought I'd got him - marrying in Surrey, and still there in 1871, but marriage shows wrong parents) but I wonder about this man in 1871:
Muggleswick, Co Durham. Joseph Holmes, lodger, 35, Navvy, born Halifax, Yorkshire.
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:37 pm

Hi sdup26 - thanks for that interesting find for navvy Joseph Holmes in 1871. I will search for this person in 1861 and 1881 onwards. My only concern is the "Daniel Holmes" listed on page 59, the son of Mary Nichol. He is also Halifax born, but is he related to Joseph? If so, it will be the wrong JH.

I can't make out the actual Muggleswick census address (p 60) Looks like the address could be "something...Park".
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby sdup26 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:31 am

You're right that it needs a further look - I thought the fact that Daniel was 'son' but Joseph was only 'lodger' might suggest a wider family relationship, as it's probably not mother and son.

Address has been transcribed on FMP as 'Smiddy Shaw' Muggleswick
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby MoVidger » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:43 pm

I've always wondered if the 1851 Bradford census was incorrect with regards Joseph being Halifax born. His mother was, but she married Jonathan in Shipley (Bradford) in July 1835. Why marry in Bradford then travel to Halifax to have your first child? That was a long way to travel in those days. The rest of the children were born in Bradford. Also, I've yet to locate a Halifax birth record for a JH born to Jonathan and Elizabeth (Betty).

I still like that Joseph Holmes (Bradford born) who was in the Army and stationed in Hampshire. He's the one who returned to Bradford years later, to the Horton area, where the Holmes family lived. Only trouble is he lists a different father on his second marriage record. I'll need to tie up his Horton addresses and match them to Bob and Abraham in 1881 to 1901. (Bob left for America in late 1881).
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Re: Jonathan Holmes - Bradford

Postby sdup26 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:08 pm

I'm pretty sure the soldier in Aldershot is the one I found in 1871, living in Farnham, Surrey (a couple of miles from Aldershot) with his wife and children. He married Ann Hawkins (nee Cranstone) DQ 1861 Farnham 2a 135. She had two children from a previous marriage (Samuel & Sarah) and they had 3 more; Harriet, Jane E, and Clara. Joseph may have been living in Bradford in 1881: 13 Cobden Street, Horton, Bradford, with daughters Jane b 1868 and Clara 1870, both born in Farnham, which all fits, but wife is now Esther, with another daughter Fanny aged 16 (1868). It looks from freebmd as if Ann Holmes died in Bradford: Ann Holmes DecQ 1871 Bradford 9b 159 aged 43 (b1831), and then there's a marriage of a Joseph Holmes JQ 1878 Bradford Y. 9b 59 to Esther Wilson - maybe Fanny is her daughter from a first marriage? Apologies if you already know all this.

You say he gave a different father on his second marriage record (to Esther); does that mean you have his first marriage record to Ann? If so, who he does he name as his father on that one?
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