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The Smiths of Hackney

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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby SDV » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:47 am

I'm happy to report that Today I received the Sarah Ann's death certificate, she died in Canning Town in 1897.

So that is the Smiths all sorted, with the sole exception of William. He was last reliably seen living with his parents in 1851. He was possibly visiting gunsmiths in Edmonton in 1861, the age and place of birth of the visitor all being correct.

I really could not have sorted Lucy, Sarah Ann and Jane out without this forum, in particular the work of ianbee.

As I said above, William (b 1844) remains the only problem. I still need to follow up sdup26's suggestion, but would welcome any other input.
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby SDV » Thu May 18, 2017 3:31 pm

I have just returned to this after some time off.

SDUP26 - the William Smith that appears in the 1861 census at Duck Lane is listed as aged 17 and born in Tottenham. Both of these facts are correct. William was born 24 Mar 1844 at Brunswick Court, Tottenham.

As for your suggestion for April 1858, I have been unable to proceed with this as I can't find an appropriate reference for a death certificate. Can you point me in the right direction.

Having made so much progress on the other children, it is frustrating that William still remains elusive.
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby sdup26 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:05 pm

The entry for the William Smith death in 1858 is on ancestry - Non-conformist & non-parochial registers 1567-1970, buried Victoria Park, Hackney, 22nd April 1858 aged 13 (b1845) and his address is given as 6, Hunter Street, Dover Road, so maybe that alone will let you rule him out (or in?)
I agree with you - I can't see a Hackney death entry that fits on the GRO index. The closest match is for a William Smith aged 13, June Q 1858, St George the Martyr 1d 94. Does that seem likely?
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby ianbee » Thu May 18, 2017 5:26 pm

sdup26 wrote:Does that seem likely?

I think so. There was a Hunter Street in St George Southwark (I've got people living there in 1851), and you do come across people from that area buried in Victoria Park Cemetery.

Must also make the point that, despite what it says on the tin, Victoria Park Cemetery was in Bethnal Green, not Hackney (see Meath Gardens on maps)
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby SDV » Fri May 19, 2017 3:04 pm

Hi

The problem is that Hunter Street is in Southwark. The Smith family is strongly centred in the Hackney/Tottenham area. And they were certainly living in Hackney in 1856.

Although the census returns for the area seem to have been lost for 1861, the family were still living in Hackney in 1871. Moreover, the weddings of William's sisters confirm that the family were living in Hackney in 1858 and 1860.

Given that William was born in 1844, he would have been 13/14 in 1858 and probably still living with his step-father and mother. What would a 13 year old be doing living in Southwark apart from his family.

Nevertheless, it does represent a possibility that needs investigating, so I will probably bite the bullet and order the certificate.
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby ianbee » Fri May 19, 2017 3:17 pm

I would have thought it's unlikely to be the right William Smith. There must have been several of that sort of age in the Southwark area.
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby SDV » Sat May 20, 2017 9:48 am

ianbee, i tend to agree, but have sent for the certificate more in hope than realistic expectation.

For what it is worth, I think that 1861 census return for Duck Lane is correct, in that the William Smith mentioned is the right age and correctly listed as born in Tottenham.

Moreover, the gunsmith connection makes sense. His sister married a gunsmith in 1858, so as a 14 year old he would have been exposed to that trade and could easily have been influenced. Moreover, in 1861 he was visiting a family of gunsmiths and could easily have been introduced by his brother-in-law. Speculation, I know, but not totally out of the question.

If that is William in 1861, the real question is where is he in 1871 and subsequent censuses? Being called Smith doesn't help.

On a related matter, the 1871 census, shows a Samuel Smith, staying with William's step-father and mother, David and Charlotte Dyer. Samuel, aged 11, is listed as a grandson, born in Shepherd's Bush. Presumably, he is the son of either Lucy or William, since Lucy married a Smith. I can't, however, find an appropriate birth for him. Lucy died in August 1860, so he could just possibly be her son, though as I say, I can't find his birth. The nearest I can find his Q3 1862 in Brentford, which is too long after her death.

William would have been 16/17 in 1861, so could also have just about been the father, though again I can't find a death.
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby SDV » Mon May 29, 2017 1:42 pm

Just a quick update as I have now received the death certificate for William Smith, who died aged 13 in Hunter Street, Southwark. As we expected, this is NOT the death certificate of my William Smith. So his death remains unknown, as does his certain presence after 1851 and his possible presence after 1861.
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby SDV » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:26 am

Another update in the hope that it makes sense to someone out there1

I have received the birth certificate of a William SMITH, who died 10 Aug 1870 at Winchmore Hill in Edmonton aged 26. His age indicates a birth in 1844, which is consistent with my William who was born 24 Mar 1844 in Tottenham. The certificate describes him as "William SMITH, otherwise called William PARKER." He is further described as a labourer.

The cause of death is rather strange: "Injuries to his abdomen received . . .railway . . ." I'm afraid that I am having great difficulty in reading the certificate. Evidently there was an inquest held on 18 Aug 1870.

I attach a scan of the sections I can't read.
Attachments
Crop.jpg
Crop.jpg (343.65 KiB) Viewed 1220 times
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Re: The Smiths of Hackney

Postby ermin79 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:01 pm

Injuries to his abdomen received of some railway truck running over [lines?] [out of?] Enfield and Wood Green Railway
Immediate

Information received from Mr John Payne Coroner for the Duchy of Lancaster in [Middlesex?]
Inquest held the 18th August 1870


Sent from my LG-K120 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
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