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Missing birth

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Missing birth

Postby oscar64 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:25 pm

Hi all
I am trying to find the birth of my 2nd great grandfather George Alcock b1851. On the census I have it says he was born in Bradford but I can't locate a BC for him there and even the GRO returned my request. His mum Sarah Ann Alcock shows Ireland as her birthplace in the census too but I don't know if that her married name or not.
I have been looking a birth records for 1851 in Ireland for a George with a mother called Sarah Ann, while looking I found this record in the picture? Can anyone explain why it would be like this with just a first name but nothing else. Could it be a foundling it similar? Any ideas greatly received. I know George married Hannah Mortimer b. 1852 in great ouseburn in 1872.
Thanks
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Re: Missing birth

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:10 pm

Wild guesses from me - aren't foundlings usually saddled with a surname indicative of something like where they were found? If you've invented a first name, why not a surname? Not that I've got much of a better idea!

Next guess - what would an illegitimate birth look like in the Catholic registers? I've no idea myself... Though I can't see why the mother's name was omitted, unless the Catholic view is different to that usually taken in England....
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Re: Missing birth

Postby peter kent » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:53 am

In 1851 civil registration of births was not 100%. Many people are missing. Have you tried parish registers?
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Re: Missing birth

Postby Sylcec » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:19 pm

In 1851 there was NO civil registration of births in Ireland. It didn't start until 1864. I think that our enquirer may be taking advantage of the recently released Irish Catholic Parish Registers which are freely available. Most of these have not yet been indexed.
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Re: Missing birth

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:29 am

Actually I *think* that they may have all been indexed. Not long ago, Ancestry and FindMyPast released images and indexes for the Catholic parish registers. With the usual talent of their communications teams for saying very little useful, they missed out saying that this had been a joint effort - the simultaneous release made it likely, I thought, and one of the bloggers was more persistent and dug out an acknowledgement of the joint nature of the work.

It *seems* that the indexes are supposed to be completed. Again, clear statements of this are missing but that was my reading of the posts - and when I checked Cork, the registers that were supposed to be there, were. Hardly a statistically valid sample so if anyone can comment, I'd be grateful. It was remarkably quick work but that's what I've read. Somewhere....

And the microfilms are pretty diabolical quality.

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Re: Missing birth

Postby oscar64 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:25 pm

Thanks for the info and ideas. Unfortunately I can't try parish records as I have no real idea where George Alcock was born! Clearly not Bradford, could be Ireland but don't know where. Massive brick wall I fear?


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Re: Missing birth

Postby brunes08 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:30 am

He could have been born in Bradford but not formally registered. It was not until 1872/74 (offhand can't quite remember which) that penalties were put in place for those families not registering a birth. It was very easy to slip through the net.
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Re: Missing birth

Postby ianbee » Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:30 pm

George married Hannah Mortimer at Acomb St Stephen, then had children baptized in that parish church. Later on they were having their children baptized at the Acomb Wesleyan Methodist Chapel. So we can't really assume Sarah was a catholic just because she was Irish

oscar64 wrote:but I don't know if that her married name or not.

You said on your earlier thread that the marriage record for George just said "Father dead". But it also says the same thing for Hannah, and umpteen others as well. Seems that in Acomb they had decided not to bother writing out the details of fathers if told they were deceased.
So really you have no idea if George was legitimate or not. Although on another entry on the next page of the Acomb marriage register, it says in the father's name column - "natural son", with a line in the father's occupation column. So, based on that, they seem to have had the impression that George was legitimate (he may have lied of course), they just didn't name the father. Obviously we know that Sarah said she was a widow on those census returns.

The likely death of mother Sarah looks to be March 1888, Great Ouseburn, age 76.
You really need to get the death certificate, to see if in the occupation column it says widow of .... Alcock, labourer (or whatever he was). Then you could see if you can find any evidence of such a person. Or, of course, it may say something entirely different.
You will also get the name of the informant, who may or may not be George. Whether the info given by the informant turns out to be accurate or not is another question.
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Re: Missing birth

Postby oscar64 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:29 am

I have now got what I hope is Sarah Alcock DC and it shows she had been married. Can anyone help me with what her maiden name might have been from this picture please?
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Re: Missing birth

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:42 am

Sorry - there is no maiden name there. It says "Widow of George Alcock wool comber", that last being his occupation. If there's something else I should be looking at, then I apologise but it's not appearing on my phone.

(Senectus? is the cause of death - old age???)

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