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Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

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Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby Jenaheldd » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:13 pm

Nelly was my great grandmother and she is proving challenging to say the least!

She was born February 1869 in Islington (d April 1942). I believe her mother was called Eleanor or Elizabeth - no idea of her father....yet!)

Nelly apparently married a John Lucas (born September 1868, died Dec 1941 in Islington). They went on to have 3 children: Margaret Jessie (b 1892, d 1962) / Winifred Rose (b Jan 1896, d 1970) / Gladys Louisa (b 1898, d 1957). The girls seem to end up using their middle names further down the line.

I can't find any record of the marriage between Nelly and John - presuming they did marry and I can't find them on any census. On the 1911 census, I found what I thought was them - all ages match, the girls are listed under the names Jessie, Rose and Louisa but Nelly is Ellen and John is George, so I dont' think it is them!

On Jessie's marriage entry, her father is listed as Jack Lucas, builder. Nelly and John appear on the 1939 register at 1 Beaumont Rise, Islington and they are listed as married, he's a builders labourer, retired.

It may be that I just can't see the wood for the trees or I just need fresh eyes, but if anyone could help fill in some of the blanks, I'd be grateful.

I have ordered the following certificates from the GRO, but they'll take a few days to arrive:
Winifred Rose (my grandmother) - birth and marriage certificate
Nelly Hobart Titford - birth certificate
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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby AntonyM » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:53 pm

Do the birth certificates of the daughters indicate that the parents were (at least claiming to be) married ?

How does Nelly's death certificate describe her e.g. ... "Wife/widow of ...." ?
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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby meekhcs » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:03 pm

I wouldn't give upon the census record you found.

Nelly can be a nickname for Ellen and perhaps John is John George or George John....and Jackcan be a nick name forJohn.
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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby ianbee » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:05 pm

Possibly same family in 1901, occupations match, here he is John Lucas, eldest daughter is Lizzie, youngest is missing?
Islington
piece 201 folio 122 page 17
John Lucas 36
Ellen Lucas 31
Lizzie 9
Rose 5
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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby Jenaheldd » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:50 pm

AntonyM wrote:Do the birth certificates of the daughters indicate that the parents were (at least claiming to be) married ?

How does Nelly's death certificate describe her e.g. ... "Wife/widow of ...." ?


Haven't got any certs yet - they are on order. I will order Nellys' death certificate tomorrow - I missed that one
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Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby SoozOne » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:12 am

Regarding Nelly, Nellie or Ellen. I had a cousin known as Nell or Nellie to everyone. Wasn't till after she'd died and I was researching that branch of the family I saw her name was actually Ellen.
Same name confusion with my mother Mary. I eventually found her on the 1939 register as May, which was what the family, except for my father, called her.
I've also frequently come across Jack for John as well. My grandfather was definitely John but known to all his friends as Jack.
As if family research wasn't difficult enough anyway.





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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:03 am

SoozOne wrote:... My grandfather was definitely John but known to all his friends as Jack. ...

I'm of a generation (and possibly location as well) where I automatically consider Jack as nothing more than a nickname for John and look for John in formal records.

However, it's worth pointing out that the opposite problem can occur - my grandpa (born 1895) was actually registered as Jack, indeed it seems to be something of a trait in his mother's family to register "nicknames" as birth names. Grandpa had uncles Sam and Dick, both of whom were registered under that name. With those three I know what names they were registered as and look for those - but occasionally officialdom will "correct" the names - e.g. one of Grandpa's school records is on FMP as "John". (That's the school's fault, not FMP's).
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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby Jenaheldd » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:50 am

My dad was Gordon Robert, but everyone called him George and his brother was Charles Alfred but he was known as Bob!
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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby ciderdrinker » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:55 am

Good Morning
This could be her with Granny
1871 Barnsbury Road Finsbury
Elizabeth Titford widow 53 Gray's Inn Road
Louisa 22 daughter millner Islington
Elizabeth 20 millner
Henry 17 brush maker
William 14
Ellen t Obart granddaughter 2 Islington.
There are two daughters Elizabeth born 1851 and Eleanore born 1843 .
Ellen is working as a nurse in 1871 in Pinner at Timberlake Villa?She dies unmarried in June 1879 Islington 1b 204 age 35 years.
Elizabeth and Ellen are the daughters of Joseph Titford born 1813 London painter who died Mar 1868 Islington 1b 201 age 55.
It looks like Elizabeth senior dies Dec 1884 age 65 Islington 1b 172.

In 1881 they are at Queensbury St Islington
Elizabeth Titford 53 widow no occupation NK
Henry 24 wheelwright
Nelly 11

1901 Queensland Road Islington
John Lucas 36 painter house Islinington
Ellen 31 box maker wooden
Lizzie 9
Rose 5



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Last edited by ciderdrinker on Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Nelly (Nellie) Hobart Titford

Postby Jenaheldd » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:58 am

SoozOne wrote:Regarding Nelly, Nellie or Ellen. I had a cousin known as Nell or Nellie to everyone. Wasn't till after she'd died and I was researching that branch of the family I saw her name was actually Ellen.


Nelly was listed on the birth index as 'Nelly Hobart Titford' and on the 1939 register and death record as 'Nellie' Lucas, so we've got a spelling change straight away.

I did see a few other people who have her in their ancestry trees have Nelly 'Ellen' Hobart Titford, so maybe she did use Ellen every now and then. Something more to look into.....as you say, family research is difficult enough already without names changing! :-)
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