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Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

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Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby JaneyH » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:31 pm

The attached photo is a picture of one of my ancestors, Charles (Charlie) John Barne.
Charlie Barne_lowres.jpg
Charles John Barne, b. 1869
Charlie Barne_lowres.jpg (292.78 KiB) Viewed 3080 times


He was born on 19 March, 1869 in Exeter St. David's in Devon. His parents were Richard Barne, a railway porter, and Sarah Elizabeth Snow. I have his family details from the 1871 and 1881 Censuses and from our family Bible. His mother Sarah died in 1873 and Richard then married Mary Ann Jennings (nee Bishop) on 6 January 1874. Richard and Mary Ann subsequently had their own child, Alice Mary Barne, born 23 May 1875. Charlie's family remained in Uffculme in north Devon in the 1891 and 1901 Censuses (both parents in 1891 and, after father Richard died in 1896, mother Mary Ann was still there in 1901).

I've been unable to find Charlie in either the 1891 or 1901 Censuses. The family story goes that he served in the Army, including a spell fighting in the Anglo-Boer War 1899-1902. He was back in England in 1902, marrying in Portsmouth, and shows up again in the 1911 Census living in Russell Square, London.

In terms of his military service I know almost nothing. My Grandmother had a red and blue chocolate tin from the Boer War (given by Queen Victoria to all troops one Christmas) that came from Charlie, but that's all I have to go on - no regimental details, service number etc. So - clutching at straws - does anyone know anything about this uniform that would help me to narrow down my search? Any snippets would help! I have access to Ancestry and FMP so could look at records there if I knew where to go. Finally, just to note that while the surname should be "Barne" some records say "Barnes".
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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby KayFarndon » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:48 pm

If you type into Google,' British Military uniforms from the 1800's' you will get lots of pictures. I think this might be a dress uniform and he is holding a swagger stick. Perhaps with the pill box headgear he would be a lower rank.
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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby Sylcec » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:39 am

I haven't been able to find a service record for him on Findmypast.
I think the uniform belongs to one of the Cavalry or Hussars regiments, or maybe a Yeomanry Regt. Suggest you have a look at this website http://www.uniformology.com/YEOMANRY-00.html Maybe the Royal 1st Devon Yeomanry?
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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby Jethro Tull » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:55 am

Possibly post on here too
http://www.victorianwars.com/
Someone may be able to assist and point in the right direction.


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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby JaneyH » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:50 am

Kay, Sylvia and Jethro - thanks for the pointers. I've already applied to join the Victorian Wars Forum but my membership is still pending. (I guess that being Christmas the administrators have better things to do.)

Meanwhile I'm visiting my parents today so I'll pick my Mum's brains again. I'm pretty sure I've got everything from her but you never know ...


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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby JaneyH » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:03 am

Hello,

Just returning to this one. The consensus on the Victorian Wars Forum is that this uniform is Royal Horse Artillery. Separately, I've had a short membership of the Forces War Records website where I used the 'ask the expert' facility. They, too, said Royal Horse Artillery, adding that it was marching-out (off-duty) uniform and the rank was Gunner or equivalent (private/driver).

So ... this helps narrow things down, but I'm still stuck with a very common name. Could anyone point me in the direction of anything at the National Archives that would help with this one? I'm going there on Wednesday (27 July) for the afternoon to look at some other records I've already pinpointed. (I've updated my request on the VWR too so if anyone is reading both, please don't duplicate your efforts.)

Many thanks, Janey
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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby plf99 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:59 am

If he was Royal Artillery I would have thought we would be able to find him on findmypast's Royal artillery attestations. If he served in the Boer War we should also be able to find him on the Ancestry's Boer War medal rolls. I can find him on neither.
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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby peter kent » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:00 am

He was back in England in 1902, marrying in Portsmouth


What occupation was given on the marriage certificate?
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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:20 am

plf99 wrote:If he was Royal Artillery I would have thought we would be able to find him on findmypast's Royal artillery attestations. ...

Unfortunately, FMP's RA Attestations are badly catalogued. They are, in fact, a list / index of attestations for RA soldiers starting with all soldiers in service in 1920-ish, when they were renumbered. Soldiers who'd left before that renumbering do not appear.

Don't blame FMP - this is a typical archivists' fault - they often date stuff from the earliest event referred to (i.e. the earliest attestation recorded in the books), rather than the date the books were created. It really needs dual dating.
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Re: Any clues on this photo gratefully received!

Postby JaneyH » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:39 am

Thanks for the updates, especially the cautionary note about the indexing of Royal Artillery attestations on FMP.

Peter - I don't have the marriage certificate, and obviously this one of my next avenues. I try to exhaust free sources (or at least my annual Ancestry and FMP subscriptions) before buying certificates, otherwise things get too expensive. In the 1911 Census he was living in Russell Square in London, and his occupation was given as 'Commissionaire, Clerk to Wine Bottlers', so there's little clue there. He stayed in London for most of his life. My great-grandmother (somewhat curiously) left Dorset to stay with him briefly and get married in London in 1914, even though her husband was a Dorset local. (Not a 'shot-gun' marriage, but perhaps there was disapproval of the match in some quarter or other.) Later, my grandmother visited him in London as a child, so he was very much a family favourite.

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