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South Wales Borderers

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South Wales Borderers

Postby grandpadragon » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:08 pm

Our local paper is trying to trace a member of the Regiment who served between 1914 and 1916 and was awarded the Silver War Badge. This badge has been found by a Metal Detectoris. who would like to return it to the family. From the number on the badge we have found he is William Roberts aged 41+5/12 on 13/4/1916 when he was discharged. giving a birth date of 11/1875. He served with the 3rd Btn his reg no was15247 and the reason for discharge was "392" Can anyone advise where I can find his his service record or home address.
National archives probably have it but they charge. Thanks in advance
Emlyn
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby Sylcec » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:14 pm

Oh dear grandpadragon - this is a recipe for confused identities.
I have managed to locate a service record for a William Roberts in the 3rd Bn SWB, but not, I think your man. This one was discharged unfit for further service just a couple of weeks later 27 Apr 1916, and had service no. 13102. He came from Wrexham.

Of more concern is that when I search the Silver War Badge roll on Find My Past, that I don't find W Roberts with service no. 15247.

Will keep looking.
Sylvia
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby Sylcec » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:18 pm

At last I have some hits on the SWB roll for W Roberts in Sth Wales Borderers, but no-one fitting the badge that was found. This is the closest:
First name(s) William
Last name Roberts
Service number 1/1946
Rank Private
Badge number 10903
Enlistment date 03-Jul-1906
Discharge date 06-Oct-1916
Unit from which discharged 3rd Batt. South Wales Borderers
Cause of discharge Wounds Para 392 (xvi) King's Regulation
Badge date of issue 16-Oct-1916
Record set Silver War Badge Roll 1914-1920

I expect that Adrian will have some more helpful info to contribute on this.
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby Sylcec » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:27 pm

One more - have found his MIC on Ancestry. See attached:
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WmRoberts-MIC.jpg
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:29 pm

I just did a search for surname "Roberts", regimental number 15247 (thanks for finding that MIC, Sylvia), and he is in Ancestry's UK, Silver War Badge Records, 1914-1920.

Name: William Roberts
Discharge Unit: 3rd Bn. S.W.B.
Regiment: South Wales Borderers
Regimental Number: 15247
Rank: Pte
Badge Number: B48659
Piece: 3093
List Number: J 0801/1-1200/2
Record Group: WO
Record Class: 329

He enlisted 23 Nov 1914, discharged 13 April 1916. 392(xvi), simply means meaning the soldier had been released on account of being permanently physically unfit. (See http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/records-of-the-silver-war-badge/)

I've checked on Ancestry and FMP and can't find any service papers for W/William Roberts, 15247. No surprise there as btw 60 and 75% of them were burnt in the Blitz in WW2. So no, Kew will not have his records (unless I've missed something) as they don't exist. Not sure what else can be done - joining that early, he probably came from the South Wales Borderers historic recruiting areas (wherever they are!) but there's no real clue, is there? :(
Adrian
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby grandpadragon » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:54 pm

Thanks Silvia I hadn't found that MIC but had found the SWB roll and that is where my info came from.
Adrian thanks for doing that digging and at least I won't waste time on the NA.
Can you look at the MIC and tell me what were the medals he got as I haven't a clue. The paper has just told me that the badge was found in Llandovery which isn't that far from Brecon the regiment HQ. The roll gives an accurate birth date so I'm going to look at the census's just prior to 1914 based on Llandovery, and expand it from there
Thanks again both of you
Emlyn
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:45 pm

The Medal Index Card shows that he was issued with the British War Medal, the Victory Medal and (because he was in a theatre of war before the end of 1915) the 1914-15 Star.

The UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 on Ancestry are the Medal Rolls (as distinct from the Medal Index Cards that point to the (original) Medal Rolls). These show that the Silver War Badge reference to the 3rd Battalion is slightly misleading. That was a Reserve unit and is (presumably) what he was discharged from. When he was abroad, in action, according to the Medal Rolls, he was in the 2nd Battalion. According to http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/south-wales-borderers/ the 2nd Bn landed in Gallipoli on 25 April 1915. He has a date of 31/5/15 for arriving in a theatre of war, so was presumably in an early batch of reinforcements.

As for who he is.... The problem is that most people go from a person with a known residence to an (potential) army post. Going in the other direction is tricky because you don't know where he comes from. It does occur to me that the are two options:
- see if the museum for the South Wales Borderers (which seems to be the Royal Welsh's Regimental Museum in Brecon) can help;
- if he was discharged early, he may have received a pension for a while. In which case the Western Front Association, which holds the pension records, may have the only clue as to his civilian life. See http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/all-about-the-wfa/wfa-news-events/pension-records.html But be warned that this is (not unreasonably) a chargeable look-up service.

Otherwise it's look up newspapers in the vague hope that he might have been mentioned. Err, yes, surname "Roberts" in Wales - shouldn't be much of a problem, then, should it.... :cry:
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby grandpadragon » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:38 pm

Thanks Adrian that's a great help. I've been looking at the census' but to many possibilities without an area reference. This should be on his pension record for as you say as he was injured he should have received one. I looked at the WFA and they charge £25 so if the paper wants to follow it they can pay. I shall provide them with the info we have found and if anything comes of it I will post it here.
Re your comments about looking for Roberts in Wales Try William Jones!!!
My grandfather was one as was his father and grandfather, nightmare!
Thanks again
Emlyn
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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby Claire Price » Sat May 20, 2017 9:08 pm

Hello,
My Great Grandfather Reg 3716 David Lloyd alias David Jones enlisted for the Royal Engineers militia and the record that I have found is very confusing. Although, I have never heard of him before finding this record, the details enclosed have failed to provide me with any pre-knowledge of his life, birth, family etc and only provide more questions than answers.
Would the records advised to be held at Kew hold any details additional that on ancestry to help me investigate and seek further details of my family before this enlistment? I eagerly await you response Claire


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Re: South Wales Borderers

Postby Sylcec » Sat May 20, 2017 10:42 pm

Claire it is not clear what, if anything, your post has to do with the thread about William Roberts to which it is attached.

If your David Lloyd Jones is unconnected, then you would be far better advised to start a brand new thread/query, telling us as much as you know about your gt grandfather. All efforts will then be made to help you find more information.
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