Moderator Control Panel ]

Dating uniform

Having trouble tracking down a wartime ancestor? Share your queries – and help fellow researchers – here

Dating uniform

Postby irishstreetlad » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:32 pm

I am trying to identify the uniform of my 2nd great uncle John Friel. There are no recognisable military insignia/badges etc. His known life span is 1859 - 1931. He may have been born in Greenock, Scotland but had connections to Burt, Co Donegal Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Attachments
John Friel.jpg
John Friel.jpg (354.59 KiB) Viewed 1886 times
irishstreetlad
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:14 pm

Re: Dating uniform

Postby brunes08 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:15 am

I'm not going on the uniform but on how old he looks. He appears quite young but could be in his thirties which could put the photo in the 1890s. Is there anything else on the photo, back or front, which gives any other information? I presume you have tried to find a service record for him. If not, have a look on the National Archives site. I have been able to access two service records from that period without knowing the regiments.
brunes08
 
Posts: 1046
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: Dating uniform

Postby Jethro Tull » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:20 am

Hi irishstreetlad, I think the uniform is 1902 pattern battledress. I dont think its any earlier than that, it looks darker and thicker than earleir issue uniforms and the turn down collar is a clue too. I cannot, im afraid, tell much more about who he seved with from the uniform. It was standard issue, with a few minor variations, across the empire troops.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
Jethro Tull
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Dating uniform

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:01 am

I thought there might be two specific points - firstly the belt and buckle. In 1908 the Army went to a canvas webbing pattern, itself displaced to some degree at the start of WW1 by a reversion to a leather pattern, though I think with an "S" shaped buckle. Not sure whether the leather WW1 pattern applied across the Army or only when supplies were short or what.... So far as I could see, this is the earlier pattern leather, so I'm glad to see Jethro putting a (probable) name to it of similar vintage to my thoughts.

The only problem is that whenever you start dating things this way on the Great War Forum, people with infinitely more experience point out that soldiers might carry on wearing old kit for a long time and old stuff might still be issued to reserve troops, etc., long after its replacement in the inventory for the Regulars.

The other aspect is - I did wonder about the buttons. The design is almost visible. However, having just done a bit of Googling, it seems like ordinary soldiers of this era (1870s/80s on) would generally just use what was termed the General Service pattern of button, which was based on the Royal Arms. The buttons in the photo vaguely look to have 3 parts to the design - that's probably the shield and crown in the centre, with the two supporters of the lion and unicorn on the outside. So probably not much help there - other than to say the chap doesn't belong to the Rifle regiments because they used black buttons (less visible when crawling through the scrub to act as a sniper). So the buttons don't seem much help even if a closer shot could be obtained.
Adrian
AdrianB38
 
Posts: 2514
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Dating uniform

Postby irishstreetlad » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:24 pm

Thank you for all your help guys. I don't have any other info for him but I will check forces war records later.


Sent from my iPhone using WDYTYA Forum
irishstreetlad
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:14 pm

Re: Dating uniform

Postby Jethro Tull » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:40 pm

Just had a quick poke around online, did he have a brother James at all? There is a James Friel joining the Irish Guards who lists a brother John, coming from Donegal. Its a long shot but he may have joined the same. Just an idea.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
Jethro Tull
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Dating uniform

Postby irishstreetlad » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:17 pm

Thanks. Will look into it when I get home.


Sent from my iPhone using WDYTYA Forum
irishstreetlad
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:14 pm


Return to Military help


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest