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George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

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George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby miss-granger » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:02 pm

I have hit a brick wall in finding out what happened to my great great grandfather, George Edwards, after 1871.

I have his marriage certificate for July 1865 in Greenwich where he married Matilda Furr. George is described as a stonemason and his father is Richard Edwards.
I also have the birth certificate of his son (my great grandfather), Arthur Thomas Henry Edwards who was born 28th May 1870 in Leeds, Yorkshire to George Edwards, a mason, and Matilda Edwards (formerly Furr).
I have managed to find the family in the 1871 census in Whitwood Mere, Yorkshire, with George called Waller (presumably as he's a stonemason) as follows:
- Waller Edwards, head, age 28, Stonemason, born Grinsill Shropshire
- Matilda Edwards, age 25, born Dartford Kent
- Frances E Edwards, daughter, born Kent Bromley
- George Selwin Edwards, son, age 3, born Kent Bromley
- Arthur T Hy Edwards, son, age 10mths, Yorkshire Leeds

I have Arthur T H Edwards' marriage certificate for August 1897 in Canterbury to Harriet Hannah Whiffin.
Arthur's father is named Roland Edwards NOT George Edwards which I cannot understand unless it may have been a middle name?

I cannot find any trace of George and Matilda Edwards after 1871. Please help if you can with any information on what happened to them (migrated?), or when/where they may have died.

Kind regards,
Hannah Edwards



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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby sdup26 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:11 pm

On the 1871 census, Matilda's husband is Walter. It looks like Walter (compare the t in Walter and in Matilda) and it's been transcribed as Walter on findmypast, although ancestry says Waller. Was this a deliberate name change? If so, did he do it again later, appearing as Roland on Arthur's marriage certificate? Sorry, this is just a first impression as I haven't had time to look further into the family, but will do so.
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George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby brunes08 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:15 pm

The transcription for the 1871 census on Ancestry, which I presume you have used, is inaccurate. If you look at the writing on the original for 'Waller' you will see that the letter L is not the same for both - the second should be T therefore it should be Walter. Compare the T in Walter with that in Matilda on the next line - the enumerator does not cross the T.
I was obviously typing this up at the same time as sdup26 so sorry for the duplication.
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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby miss-granger » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:44 pm

Thank you both. If it is Walter then I think I'm even more confused!
Either he changed his name again, or I have the wrong record.

If anyone can shed any light or suggest any next steps that would be great.

Hannah


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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby Sylcec » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:17 am

this is probably Matilda's birth registration:
First name(s) MATILDA
Last name FURR
Birth year 1844
Birth quarter 2
District DARTFORD
County Kent
Volume 5; Page 97

and here is the marriage regn:
First name(s) MATILDA
Last name FURR
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1865
MarriageFinder™ MATILDA FURR married one of these people
JOHN HOWLEY, GEORGE EDWARDS
District GREENWICH
County London
Volume 1D; Page 1046

This is her with her family in 1851 at: The Brickmakers Arms, Widmore, Bromley, Kent:
Thomas Furr Head Married Male 56 1795 Beer Shop Keeper Canterbury, Kent
Suzanna Furr Wife Married Female 50 1801 - Essex
George Furr Son Unmarried Male 16 1835 Assistant Gardener Dartford, Kent
Amelia Furr Daughter Unmarried Female 14 1837 At Home Dartford, Kent
Alfred Furr Son - Male 10 1841 Scholar Dartford, Kent
Matilda Furr Daughter - Female 7 1844 Scholar Dartford, Kent,
Isabelah Furr Daughter - Female 2 1849 - Bromley, Kent
Last edited by Sylcec on Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby peter kent » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:55 am

Code: Select all
I have Arthur T H Edwards' marriage certificate for August 1897 in Canterbury to Harriet Hannah Whiff


The GRO index says BROMLEY, not Canterbury. Can you please check.
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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby Sylcec » Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:01 am

In 1861 this is the Furr family, though they are at 8 Plaistow St, Bromley and Thomas' occupation is Cordwainer!
Thomas Farr 67
Susan Farr 57
Thomas Farr 40
Frances S Farr 29
Edward Farr 28
George Farr 26
Amelia Furr 22
Alfred Furr 20
Matilda Furr 18
Isabella Furr 11
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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby ianbee » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:03 pm

Have you identified George Edwards? His origins seem to be somewhat elusive, based on the details in the 1871 census (age 28, born Grinsill, Shropshire) and the marriage (father Richard Edwards, stonemason)

Trying a different tack - Arthur's sister Frances. In 1871 she was age 4, born Kent Bromley
Birth reg in June 1866, Bromley
Edwards, Frances E
A pity we don't know what the E stands for

Looking in the later census records for any Frances born around that time in Bromley, Kent, throws up a few. But this married lady seems to be a bit of a mystery -
1901 Frances Pennell, 33, born Kent Bromley, husband is John. Living Norbury, Cheshire
1911 Frances Pennell, 44, born Kent Bromley, husband John. Living Norbury, Shropshire
In 1891 she is Frances E Pennell, 24, born London, husband Jack. Living Wrenbury, Cheshire

Her surname on marriage is Ore
18 January 1887 at Wrenbury
John Pennell, 23, Bachelor, Labourer, residence Wrenbury, father Joseph Pennell, Labourer
+
Frances Emily Ore, 20, Spinster, residence Wrenbury, father Frank Rowland Ore, Stonemason

No sign of a Frances or Fanny Ore / Orr from the Bromley area. There is a Hoare family there later, don't think they are anything to do with her.
And I can't verify the existence of a Frank Rowland Ore at all!
There was though a Rowland Ore, birth was registered in Congleton district in June 1842
baptism at the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Sandbach -
22nd May 1842
Roland
parents Richard + Jane Ore
abode Sandbach in the County of Chester
age Three Weeks

Is there any connection?
Ian
Last edited by ianbee on Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby ianbee » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:50 pm

Looking further at Roland / Rowland Ore
I can find him in 1851 and 1861
1851 (they are transcribed as Ow on ancestry, maybe that is what it says!)
piece 2169 folio 46 pages 16 and 17
Monks Coppenhall
Richard Orr Head 40 Stone Mason
Jane Orr Wife 46
Susan Orr Daur 16
Henry Orr Son 14
Emily Orr Daur 11
Roland Orr Son 9
Jane Orr Daur 4

1861
piece 2616 folio 129 page 21
Monks Coppenhall
Rowland Ore, Boarder (?), 18, Stone Mason, born Cheshire Sandbach

His sister Emily is interesting
Baptized 26 April 1840 at the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Sandbach
She married a man called George Edwards!

19 January 1860 at Monks Coppenhall
George Edwards, 25, Bachelor, Clerk, residence Crewe, father William Edwards, Labourer
+
Emily Ore, 21, Spinster, residence Crewe, father Richard Ore, Stone Mason

He certainly isn't your George Edwards, stonemason.
But could Roland Ore have been using the name of his brother in law for a while? Is that possible? If so, why?

Can anyone see Roland Ore 1871-91?
I can find him again in 1901, visiting Jane Ellis and family in Holbeck, Leeds
Roland or Boland Ore, Widr, 58, Stone Mason (out of work) born Cheshire Sand Batch

1911 in the Nantwich Union Workhouse
Rowland Hoare, Inmate, 68, Widower, Stone Mason, born Cheshire Sandbach

Possible death,
Dec 1912 Newcastle L. 6b 67
Ore, Roland
age 70
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Re: George (Waller) Edwards born c1843 - help needed!

Postby ianbee » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:02 pm

Just seen this from the 1881 census. Looks like Roland's father. I thought he had died before then!
Says he was born in Grinshill, or similar. Is that the missing link? I couldn't really make out his place of birth on the 1851 census.
Your George Edwards was born in "Grinsill" in 1871, but can see no sign of such a person from Grinshill, whilst we know Roland Ore was born in Sandbach in Cheshire.

1881
piece 3542 folio 130 page 34
Monks Coppenhall
2 Hope St
Richard Ore Head Mar 71 Stone Mason Shropshire Grinshill
Lucy A Edwards Grand Dau 13 Scholar Bucks Wolverton
Mary N Mills Servant Wid Domestic Servant 47 Staffs Hanley

Lucy Edwards was a daughter of George Edwards and Emily. Emily's mother Jane Ore, described as married, was with the Edwards on the 1871 census. Wonder where Richard was?

Baptism at Grinshill
28th January 1810
Richard
son of George and Margaret Oare

So it certainly looks possible that Roland Ore and George Edwards are the same person. Their approximate ages, plus their occupation, and father's names are the same. Grinshill is where Roland's father was born.
Roland, and not George, Edwards was the name given for his father by Arthur when he married.
If all this is so, then Roland was going to some lengths to hide his identity. Only to return to it later!
Doesn't explain what happened to Matilda
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