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James Kemm

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James Kemm

Postby plf99 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:40 pm

I am trying to find out more about my great, great, great grandfather, James Kemm (1849-1911). He appears in all the census records apart from 1881. In 1867 he volunteered with the 'Paddington Rifles' for three months before being 'striked off'. There is mention of a J. Kemm serving with the 'Infantry Brigade Depot (17th)', before being discharged in 1883 and this may explain why I cannot locate him on the 1881 census.

When I try to trace the Infantry Brigade Depot (17th), it suggests that it was formed in 1914 for World War One. It was, however, based in Middlesex, which is where James was from.

I'm not quite sure I understand any of this situation really and any help in figuring it out would be very helpful.

Many thanks in advance

Tom
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Re: James Kemm

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:53 pm

I think it may be the Depot referred to as 17th Brigade Depot, i.e. the depot for the 17th Brigade. That was in existence about that time according to the TNA Catalogue. See http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... r/C4427885
The 17th Brigade may well have been an infantry brigade. The Army has a habit of sticking extra words onto the official title, thus confusing those of us who start by believing the exact words in front of us.

Sent from my GT-I8190N
Adrian
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Re: James Kemm

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:28 pm

On the other hand.... :evil:

17th Brigade Depot certainly existed at roughly that time, as per TNA catalogue data that I linked.

However, the J Kemm recorded as "Infantry Brigade Depot (17th)" in "Chelsea Pensioners' discharge documents 1760-1887" on FMP is in no such thing. Looking at the image, it reads at the top:
  • The Leicestershire Regiment
  • 17th Regtl Dist
  • Brigade is crossed out at this point
  • 1/17 Regiment
  • 2/17 Regiment

Which I think means this:
  • The 17th Regiment of Foot, eventually became the Leicestershire Regiment, but the numbers carried on in use
  • 17th Regtl Dist - presumably means that this is the district for the 17th Regiment, i.e. the Leics.
  • 1/17 and 2/17 are the 1st and 2nd battalions of the Leics Regiment and are the two battalions involved with these pages.
  • Obviously(?) the form was originally created for brigade usage but has been adapted for regimental usage. This page now has nothing to do with any 17th Brigade or 17th Depot.

J Kemm is discharged 14 November 1883, as, I think, "unlikely to make an efficient soldier" - I think that's the longer, more usual phrase. If you look closely, Kemm and the other inefficient soldiers have no regimental numbers. I don't think this is a coincidence - I suspect (but can't prove) that these inefficient guys had only just joined but the Army had decided that they "had two left feet" or whatever phrase you want to use, and discharged them before they'd had chance to even be given a number.

All of which suggests that it's unlikely that your 3G GF is, at the age of 34, volunteering again to go into the Army - especially if it's up in the Leicester area. Stranger things have happened - just not very often.
Adrian
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Re: James Kemm

Postby plf99 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:06 pm

By the way, although James was born in Paddington, his family historically came from Leicestershire, his father was born there. That is why I have an interest in the Leicestershire link.
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