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Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

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Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby GrahamWP » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:50 am

Hi
I am trying to find out the service number for my Great Uncle who severed ( and survived ) in WW1
His name was Albert Marshall from Wokingham in Berkshire and his Wife’s name was Alice, we think he was a Driver in the Army Service Corps Mechanical Transport - 278 47th (London) Division.

I have tried Ancestry but unfortunately it’s a common name and all the records found don’t have anything to link to him, there are some records on livesofthefirstworldwar.org but I am reluctant to pay the Fee if it’s only the same information as Ancestry.

3 Candidates are:-
Driver Albert Marshall British Army Army Service Corps, Service #T4/245537
Driver Albert Marshall British Army Army Service Corps, Service #T4/249253
Driver Albert Marshall British Army Army Service Corps, Service #TS-10303

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Graham
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby meekhcs » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:18 am

There are several records on FMP for an Albert Marshall too many to wade through without more detail. When washis d.o.b? When did he marry Alice? What was his Father's name? When did he list? What was his address at enlistment?
An answer to any of the above will help narrow the search.
Have you looked at records at The National Archives website? If you can narrow down the search, details are £3-4 to download.
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby GrahamWP » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:33 am

Thank you for the reply.

His DOB was Dec 1892, He Married Alice 1st Oct 1913 & Father was Charles George Marshall.

I don’t know when he enlisted etc, all the info we have is from a Photo, I did look on FMP during a Free Trial but no more Success than Ancestry, I also looked on the National Archives Site but they look like the same records as Ancestry.

Graham
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby meekhcs » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:58 am

T4/244537. His address was Leicester when he attested in 1912 and his next of kin was his Mother Charlotte Ann Marshall.
TS/10303 was 28 years of age when he attested in 1915 so too old
Cannot find T4/ 249253 but will contine looking
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby meekhcs » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:34 am

I have looked through the records on FMP but cannot find him.Hopfully one of the military experts on here will pick up the thread and may be able to offer something further but so many service records did not survive.
Have you tried googling ASC etc which will lead you to The Long Trail etc which will give you an idea of where he may have served and provide good background reading.
I would try a post on the Great War Forum if you haven't already done so, again there are many experts on there who may offer something different.

Good Luck
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby ianbee » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:17 pm

If Albert had a daughter, birth registered June qtr 1915 in Wokingham, you could try ordering that certificate and see what it says about him then.
Medal card for the unidentified T4/249253 (who had also had been reg. no. 418) says Theatre of War first served in - Egypt, date of entry therein - 24.4.15. Has the 1915 Star
So if that was your Albert, then he would presumably have been in the army when that Wokingham birth was registered. It could record his service number on the cert.
Ian
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby GrahamWP » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:37 pm

Thank you both very much for trying and the advice.

I had tried everything I thought of but you have now given me some ideas.

Graham
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:31 pm

There are - or rather, were - just three "guaranteed" ways of finding someone's serial number and unit from the details that you have. Firstly, from their medals. Secondly, from their service papers. Thirdly from the Absent Voters' Lists (AVLs) - if they were old enough to vote.

1. Have you tried to locate his medals? If the family no longer has them, then that route is pretty much closed.

2. AVLs were, in effect, lists of people with postal votes - the fantastic thing is they contain the voter's unit and number. Unfortunately, only limited numbers of AVLs survive and a quick Google suggests Berkshire's AVLs may not be among them. The local Record Office may know better.

3. The service papers - firstly the stuff available at Kew, on Ancestry, FindMyPast and livesofthefirstworldwar.org is basically all the same - they are the surviving service papers, so if you've not found him on FMP there is no point going to livesofthefirstworldwar.org. Having said that, it is a good idea to check both Ancestry and FMP as the indexing is different and FMP seem to have more papers visible - my G-uncle is on FMP but not Ancestry. Don't bother with Lives as that's just compiled by the same people as FMP in the area you need.

But the major issue is that between 2/3 and 3/4 of the papers were destroyed in a fire in WW2. If you knew all this, then my apologies, but it's important to understand what is possible and likely.

There are lots of other ways you might find the data you need - newspaper cuttings, etc. - but they really are by chance. I suspect you may need to read The Long, Long Trail on http://www.1914-1918.net/ to find out what you can about research.

The really good news is that you do seem to know what many people desire and never find - his unit. Presumably "278 47th (London) Division" came from that photo? On The Long, Long Trail, if you look up the ASC then on http://www.1914-1918.net/ASC_MT.htm you'll find a 1-liner about 278 Company, which apparently was one of the companies operating an ammunition stores for the Division (47th in their case). It was, it seems, then absorbed into 267 MT Company (the Divisional Supply Column) in March 1918. That means you may have a "latest possible" date for that photo, as it ought to have been taken by March 1918. (Actually - I wonder if there is an error in the LLT data at this point - reading it through, 267 was the DSC for 20th Division but 277 was the DSC for 47th Division - was 278 absorbed into 277?).

At least you can - assuming 278 Company is right and there's no reason it shouldn't be (famous last words) - trace what happened to the Division from the Long Long Trail website. Incidentally, I have no idea what the ASC did in operating an ammunition stores and what the Artillery did in operating one. Maybe they did different things on the same site?
Adrian
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby ianbee » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:25 am

Forgive my ignorance, but if he was in MT, could any of the three candidates you listed be him? They are all (in rank) Drivers, but doesn't that mean they were in Horse Transport? For example, my grandfather was a driver in the ASC, but in MT, rank Private, and his number is prefixed M1
What do you know that makes you think he was in the 278 47th (London) Division?

There is a book that may help you, generally speaking, called "Army Service Corps, 1902-1918", by Michael Young. It was published quite a while back (2000), but maybe you can track down a copy. I've had it out of my central library several times, but have just looked at the catalogue and it's no longer listed! Typical!
Ian
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Re: Finding my Great Uncle Albert Marshall’s Service Number

Postby GrahamWP » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:23 am

Thank you Adrian & Ian.

1) No Medals I am afraid.
2) I have been to the Berkshire Record Office and the AVL’s did not survive.
3) I thought his records may have been part of the non-surviving batch but wasn’t sure the different sites had the same info.

Yes we do know his regiment details as it’s on the bottom of the Photo we have is a group one.
I will look at the web sites you mentioned, I knew it was a bit of a long shot as I had exhausted all the avenues I could think off. I have learned things I did not know from the replies so am glad I posted this and will continue digging.

Thanks again
Graham
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