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Searching for my great-great-great grandmother's maiden name

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Searching for my great-great-great grandmother's maiden name

Postby RozBanks » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:49 pm

I have hit a brick wall, trying to find out my gt-gt-gt-grandmother's maiden name. My gt-gt-gt grandfather was Philip Clark(e) born in Ireland abt 1809-12. He may also have siblings called John and Patrick. They had a son (my gt-gt grandfather) called John born 1853-1855 in Liverpool married to a Margaret Long. I have found baptism records for a John Clarke, with Philip and Catherine, and Philip and Elizabeth as parents. It seems pointless doing a search on rootsireland.ie if I have no idea of her maiden name or what part of Ireland they were from. They were definitely Roman Catholic and all lived in the Vauxhall area of Liverpool, were many Irish people settled after the Irish Famine. Any help or tips would be great.
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Re: Searching for my great-great-great grandmother's maiden

Postby Pennie » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:44 pm

The 1861 census has a John CLARKE (born c1854 in Liverpool), with parents Philip and Catherine (both born in Ireland) and six siblings (all born in Liverpool).

John's birth registration would give you his mother's maiden name. Unfortunately, there are quite a few John CLARKEs registered in Liverpool between 1853 and 1855, so it may be better to go after the certificate of one of his brothers - Andrew, born c1845.

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Re: Searching for my great-great-great grandmother's maiden

Postby ciderdrinker » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:24 am

Hi
John was baptised at St Mary's 22.5.1853 born on the 17th godparents Thomas and Catherine Corcoran.
Siblings Anne 24.9./26.9/1847 ST Marys-Anne Morrison & Phillip Smith.
Phillip 22.3./28th 1858 -James and Bridget Garman Mother Catherine Soraghan
James 24.11//2nd Dec 1860 - William and Catherine Henley same mother
There is also a James bapt at St Patrick 7.12/10.12 1848 to Phillip Clarke and Catherine McMahon-godparents John McMahon and Agnes Murray.

Obviously that still gives a choice of 3 Sep 1853 on the birth GRO index.I'd go for Phillip's Mar 1858 8b 109 but you do already have his mother's maiden name on the baptism even if it's one I've never heard of.

It looks like there are a lot of Soraghans in County Monaghan,Louth and Meath.

ps catholic parish records are now on line at registers.nli.ie

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Re: Searching for my great-great-great grandmother's maiden

Postby RozBanks » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:49 pm

Many thanks for the searches, it's been a great help. I will order one of the birth certs
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Re: Searching for my great-great-great grandmother's maiden

Postby RozBanks » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:00 am

Following on from my previous posts....I have still been unable to find Philip Clark's baptism record born abt 1823 in Ireland. According to his marriage cert his father was Bryan Clark a labourer, and his mother's name was Rose. In 1861 and 1871 he was living in Clement Street, Liverpool with his brothers, Patrick born abt 1812, a ship keeper, and his brother John born abt 1819 (a widower). It's possible they were from County Meath, as Patrick's son Michael, later lists Co Meath as his place of birth on the 1891 census. I have searched on rootsireland.ie, and the Catholic baptisms from National Library of Ireland website but found no records for Philip, or his two brothers. It also seems strange considering the Irish naming pattern that none of the brothers named any of their children Bryan or Rose. I would really appreciate further help in solving this mystery.
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Re: Searching for my great-great-great grandmother's maiden

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:49 am

Don't place too much faith in naming patterns. Some people used them. Some didn't. So absence of those names doesn't prove a thing.

As for a missing baptism, well, John Grenham's "Tracing Your Irish Ancestors" suggests that some RC registers don't start until the mid or even later 1800s - he says that the "majority of Catholic registers begin in the first decades of the nineteenth century". He also implies that the list of known RC registers is not fixed and is slowly growing.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, one of the problems with the lists of registers that I do see, is that it's never clear whether the start date is the date that the parish was founded (in which case nothing is missing from there) or the date of the earliest surviving, known register - in which case, stuff is lost.

This is not, of course, much help to you, but I feel that it's important to be realistic and not beat yourself up over impossibilities.

If anyone does know of any analysis that's been done about what percentage of Irish Catholic births are to be found in the online registers, then I for one would be greatly interested. I have 2 Irish 3G GPs whose origins are either totally lost or the subject of endless myth and legend respectively and some neutral statistics would be welcome.

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