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(James) William GILBERT

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(James) William GILBERT

Postby SDV » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:32 pm

The above person was born in Tottenham in December 1867 with the name James William GILBERT. He seems to have gone by the name of just William, possibly so he would not be confused with his younger brother born in June 1871 and named James. Both brothers seem to have been named after their father James.

I know that William GILBERT attested on 31 Oct 1889, joining the Royal Artillery as Gunner 75539. I know that this is the right William Gilbert, by the address given and the list of next-to-kin. He served in India between 2 Dec 1890 and 16 Mar 1895, but then goes missing. I am finding the attached documents very hard to read.

It is possible that he re-enlisted for WW1, serving in the Royal Garrison Artillery as Gunner 36234. If so he was killed on 12 July 1918 in France and Flanders.

I have no idea of how to check if the soldier who served in WW1 is the same as my relative. Any ideas?
Attachments
1889 Military 4.jpg
1889 Military 4.jpg (281.4 KiB) Viewed 3338 times
1889 Military 3.jpg
1889 Military 3.jpg (302.63 KiB) Viewed 3338 times
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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby Jethro Tull » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:17 pm

It looks like this chappie was in the R.G.A being discharged on 1st April 1902. I've had a quick search on the CWGC site and the w gilbert there is also listed as t w gilbert so may not be the same gent you seek.

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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby Jethro Tull » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:20 pm

I've beem tinkering with the images you have posted and spotted that he was recalled in 1899, possibly for the boer war. Check the medal rolls there see if there is any further info if you habe access to them.

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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby SDV » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:33 pm

Jethro - many thanks for your thoughts. Is it possible that the "T" is really a "J", because although he went by the name William, he was baptised James William.

I think a major part of my problem is that I can't actually read the documents I have posted, apart from the bit that lists family members.

If anyone can actually transcribe the other parts, I would be very grateful.
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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby Jethro Tull » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:06 pm

It is a possibility, I'm not top sure wjst records the cwgc would base their details on. It is a shame as on the chap I mentioned there are no other next of kin or address which sometimes crop up. If you can send over any higher res pics I'll have a look if you like, I've spent hours and hours looking at old military records for my family!

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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby SDV » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:48 am

Jethro - these were the best I had. They were downloaded from A*try or possibly FMP, but I think the former. Try a search under William Gilbert 75539 for the first chap and William Gilbert 36234 for the second.
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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby Jethro Tull » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:34 pm

SDV, do you know if your relative was married? The personal effects of the chap that died in ww1 where left to a widow Lucy. Don't know if that may help, I've I've still not found any evidence linking the two as of yet. As regards reading the military record, his main service in India was with the Garrison Artillery, Eastern Division, 8th battery based at Allahabad. The Eastern Division HQ was at Dover with depots at Dover and Great Yarmouth, so possibly where it says "sub" it is referring to one of these outside of his service in India. He briefly, a few weeks, spent time early on with the Royal Horse Artillery. Once recalled into service in 1899 the Garrison Artillery had become the Royal Garrison Artillery and I am not sure where he served, but the "20" may indicate 20th battery and between the dates listed on his record they where at Fort Fareham. He was a gunner throughout his career. I hope some of this may be of some use and interest.
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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby SDV » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:32 pm

Many thanks - unfortunately I have no idea who Lucy might be. I have no knowledge of a marriage, though he may well have married given that he would have been 51 years of age in 1918. It is a shame that the records do not record an age for the "second" soldier.
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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:06 am

I can add a bit to W Gilbert 36234 of the RGA.

If you look for him on the CWGC site then, like many, there are now scans of auxiliary pages in the CWGC's registers. He gets 4 images and the 2nd page of the headstone documents show that grave 2214 (i.e. his grave - see p1 of the headstone documents) has contact details for Mrs. LM Gilbert, 46 Laburnum St, Priory, Taunton. Looking in FreeBMD for possible marriages of a William Gilbert to a Lucy, there is one that stands out - in Q4 of 1917, William Gilbert and possibly Lucy Garland in Taunton district.

Remember, FreeBMD only indexes names on the same page - the Taunton WG married either Lucy Garland or Dora E Back, the other name on that page.

The death certificate for W Gilbert, 32634 RGA, is indexed on FindMyPast in the GRO War Death Army Other Ranks (1914 to 1921) and I assume that the certificate should have his age on. But I don't know that. (The Army deaths index doesn't carry ages).

Really scrabbling around now... In the absence of service records, it's dangerous to try and work out when someone joined but my impression is that W Gilbert, 32634 RGA, joined in 1911 as if you look for a wild carded serial number 362*, keyword Garrison, in FMP's British Army Service Records 1914-1920, and visually discard the non-RGA people and those with 6-digit numbers, then I've found 4 people with numbers in the 36200-99 range in the RGA and all joined in 1911. Numbers in a particular corps are assigned sequentially so I'd actually be quite happy, personally, to work on the basis that's when he joined.

On that basis, I find it unlikely that he's the guy born in 1867 - while older guys were called up in WW1, and old soldiers re-volunteered, I really don't think someone in their 40s in 1911 would either want to join, nor be accepted into, the Army.
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Re: (James) William GILBERT

Postby SDV » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:15 pm

Thanks for the replies and help. I now have the death certificate for the soldier killed in 1918 and it gives his age as 25. He must therefore have been born about 1893 and can't be the same soldier as the one who was born in Dec 1867.

So having ruled out the 1918 death, it still leaves me with the following problems with regard to (James) William GILBERT:

(1) did he marry?
(2) where was he in 1901 and 1911?
(3) when did he die?

As always, any help or insights welcomed.
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