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A problem shared is a problem halved. Post your brick walls here and see whether you can offer advice to others
Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:17 am
I have been trying to trace my grandmother's maternal line for what seems like an eternity, a line which doesn't seem to crack whatever I throw at it! If you are up for a challenge can you let me know what you think to my latest thoughts please.... or indeed throw some new ideas my way.
My Grandma, Annie Laura Pearce was born 6 April 1904 in Birmingham and was the daughter of Edwin Pearce and Agnes Eliza Bartleet. It is Agnes which is causing me a lot of head scratching! According to Agnes's marriage cert her father was William Walter Bartleet (variant of Bartlett) and his occupation was recorded as a carpenter. I can find no trace of a William Walter Bartleet but I can find a William Henry Bartleet who was a carpenter and he had a daughter called Agnes and a son called William Walter Bartleet.... snag is if I have the right family they are recorded under the name of Lewis on the 1881 census. I have found a William Henry Bartleet who married a Margaret Lewis... so is this right family?
William Henry Lewis, born approx. 1849 in Redditch (carpenter)
Margaret Lewis born approx. 1849 in Carmarthenshire, Wales
William Walter Lewis born approx. 1871 in Birmingham (christened in Bristol under Bartleet?)
Agnes Lewis born approx. 1873 in Birmingham (christened in Bristol under Bartleet?)
Mary Lewis born approx. 1875 in Bristol
Florence born approx. 1877 in Birmingham
Matilda born approx. 1878 in Manchester
There is a Florence Kate Bartleet, daughter of Henry William Bartleet who married a Charles Sleightholme 3 Feb 1900 in the Parish Church Barnes in Surrey. William is deceased and I know he was deceased at the time of Agnes's marriage to Edwin Pearce in 1897. Witnesses to the marriage were Margaret and William Walter Bartleet. Was this her mother and brother? Such a shame it was not Agnes who witnessed the marriage as she would have taken the name Pearce by this time... that would have been too easy!
Do you think my Lewis and Bartleet family are the same family? It would be so nice to crack this brickwall as it has caused as much head scratching as my Grabowski line.... but that's another story!
Thank you in advance for any help and tips you are able to offer
Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:30 am
William Walter Bartleet was registered in Birmingham 1871 and married Margaret Beattie in Westminster Dec 26 1898. He states his father as William Henry Bartleet, carpenter.
I do think you are right in that the Lewis family are the Bartleets.
Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:34 am
I do think the Lewis and Bartleet families are the same.Lewis is Margaret's maiden name.
They married at Clifton near Bristol 25.12.1869.Fathers Walter Bartleet and William Lewis,from Familysearch.Obviously the certificate would give more.
This seems to be down to the confusion between Agnes Eliza's father William Henry and her brother William Walter baptised with her at Bristol St James and St Jacob's 2.3.1873.
William Walter was born in Birmingham 30.12.1870.
The family don't show up on the censuses very well because of misspellings of their surname.
Grandfather Walter marries a Ann Dugard at Bromsgrove Dec 1847 18 335.
In 1851 they are at Ball Fields Tipton as Barleet
Walter 24 joiner Tardebrigge
William Henry 2
1861 sees them as Daitlett in Birmingham over a printers
Walter 35 carpenter Redditch
Anne 33 Feckenham
William Henry 12 Redditch
Annie Elizabeth 9 Birmingham
Alice Maria 5
Walter Horace 4
George Albert 2
1871 Dorchester St Aston as Barkett
Walter 43,ann 42, Ann Elizabeth 19 Redditch,Walter Horace 16,George Albert 11,Catherine Amelia 5,Francis Howard 3,Margaret Eleanor 1.
William Henry and Margaret are at Inkerman St also as Barkett
1891 sees Walter and Ann in Handsworth as Bartleet with daughter C Amelia 27 and R(ose )Florence 25.
Both girls are boarding elsewhere in 1881 and I can't see their parents.
Margaret ,William Henry's wife is in service as Barkeet in 1891 in Wood lane listed as married.
I do think you have the correct family and it is the right Agnes Eliza even though her father is down as William Henry because everything else fits.
ps if you don't have it William Henry Bartleet seems to be admitted to the workhouse 28 Sep 1896 age 56 labourer St George's Workhouse Mint st Southwark.
The criminal index on Ancestry also has a couple of possible entries for Bartleets.
Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:31 pm
A puzzle, I agree. A couple of things I can think of at the moment. One is that Agnes' mother married twice. First to Lewis and then to Barfleet. If that is so, then the children changed their names later. However, it may be that for some reason Lewis changed his name to Barfleet. I have a gt gt grandfather who went through life using two different surnames. He was illegitimate so on some records he used his mother's surname and on others, his step-father's name. Have just seen the above posts so this may not now be relevant.
Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:16 pm
You refer to the births of children of William and Margaret as ‘approx’ - does this mean you don’t have any birth certificates for them?
Baptism record for William Walter Bartlett: born 30/12/1870, bapt 2/3/1873 in Bristol. F William Henry Bartlett, mother Margaret.
Agnes Eliza Bartlett: born 10/2/1873, bapt 2/3/1873, Bristol.
F William Henry Bartlett, mother Margaret.
1871 census for Inkerman Street, Aston, Birmingham:
William H Bartlett, head, 22, carpenter and joiner, born Redditch, Worcs.
Margaret Bartlett, wife, 22, born Carmarthenshire, Wales
William W Bartlett, son, 3 months, born Birmingham, Warks.
So far, so good, then in 1881, they’re all called Lewis. So what happened in between?
Did William Henry do something, not necessarily criminal, but perhaps unethical, that necessitated a change of name? Was Margaret left a family bequest provided she, William and their children, all reverted to her maiden name?
Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:27 am
I agree that the LEWIS and BARTLEET families are the same people. It is hard, if not usually impossible to discover why these name changes took place. As suggested by sdup26, it may have arisen from some unethical (or criminal) behaviour by the father, possible bankruptcy. In other cases it is a result of expectations of inheritance from an ancestor of the assumed name. (though this seems unlikely given that William ended up in the workhouse, albeit under his 'proper' name).
Some long while ago I had a similar problem but was able to prove that the family I knew with surname PARKER, had originally been BOTTERILL - they had changed about 1860. No reason ever found, but fortunately the Botterill was used as a middle name on some of the children's marriage certs.
Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:16 pm
Thank you all so very much. I really do appreciate your help and confirmation that I am not barking up the wrong tree. It is so easy to do that when you want something to be true so it is great to have others to provide common sense.
I must apologise for the delay in responding but for some reason I did not receive an alert to let me know that responses had been posted. I should have looked sooner!
I have not ventured down the certificate route yet as I didn't want to fork out for a wrong certificate but now that you wonderful people agree with my logic I will venture down this route, especially as I have more info on the Lewis family. The census info you have provided me is fantastic as I was really struggling to find the family, even using a wild card. This will enable me to research my family in much more detail, as will the marriages you have uncovered. Clearly I have a lot more to uncover here but finally I feel I am making some progress.
Thank you to everyone who has kindly taken the time to reply. As always, I knew I could rely on you.
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:07 pm
Have you any additional information from the death certificate (following burial extract from Find My Past)
William Walter Bartleet
Marital status -
Event year 1904
Birth year 1849
Age at death 55y
Burial year 1904
Burial date 06 Apr 1904
Burial place Aston, Juxta, Birmingham, Warwich, England
Street address Aston Union Workhouse
Residence Aston, Juxta, Birmingham, Warrick, England
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:21 pm
Is this your Edwin & Agnes (with son Archibald and his wife) from the 1939 Register:
at 67 Bonsall Road, Birmingham
Edwin Pearce 23 Dec 1878 Male Advertisement Canvasser Married 222 1
Agnes M Pearce 07 Jun 1879 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 222 2
Archibald Pearce 23 Dec 1905 Male Printers Traveller Married 222 3
Winifred B Pearce 06 Jun 1911 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 222 4
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