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Can anyone help me please

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Can anyone help me please

Postby pete25 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:12 am

My 2x great grandfather Maj. Samuel Boon died 18th January, 1875, Co Longford, Ireland.

Samuel was in the 8th Hussars and died at the age of 37.

I can't find a death certificate for him. Irish Births, Marriage and Deaths say they don't have a death certificate on record for Samuel Boon...I now wonder why?

I'm confused as I've located a grave for Samuel Boon and his grave is in the Parish Church of Temple Michael, Co Longford. I also have a picture of his grave.

If anyone can help me locate a death certificate for my 2x great grandfather Samuel I would be so pleased to hear from you...this has been a mystery for a very long time.

Thank you in advance for any help and assistant.

Peter.


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Last edited by pete25 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can anyone help me please

Postby Sylcec » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:18 am

There is certainly something confusing here - I have just consulted the Hart's Army List for 1874 and there is no mention of a Samuel Boon (or any other Boon) on the page for the 8th (Kings Royal Regiment) Irish Hussars. Neither is he in the name index in the 1870 edition. These Army Lists have been digitised and are freely available on http://www.archive.org.

I therefore raise the question - do you think he was a commissioned officer who maybe retired early, or maybe a Sergeant Major, i.e. an NCO who would have gone up through the ranks?

Incidentally, the regiment was based at the Curragh in County Kildare from 1869-1875.

Either way - if he died in or out of service in 1875, then his death should have been registered.
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Can anyone help me please

Postby pete25 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:48 am

Hi Sylcec,

Thank you for coming back to me on this.

Samuel Boon was a Farrier Major in the 8th Hussars and I understand he died in service.

Samuel was buried with his son Samuel Boon and the Irish Births, Marriages and Deaths say they can find a death certificate for Samuel Boon Jr but not a death certificate for my 2x great grandfather. This has continued to be a mystery to me and makes me think, 'why was my 2x great grandfather's death not recorded?'. Incidentally, my 2x great grandfather was born in Stockport, Cheshire, UK.

I even employed a researcher who specialises in army etc research and all that this researcher could find down at GRO was a entry that Samuel Boon died in 1875, Co Longford, Ireland. This researcher informed me there was nothing more than this.

Sylcec, if you wish you can go and visit the find a grave website and view a picture of Samuel Boon in his army uniform and a picture of his grave..

Kind regards,

Peter.



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Re: Can anyone help me please

Postby peter kent » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:06 am

A farrier major was not a major any more than a sergeant major was a major! He would have been an NCO (non commissioned officer). Therefore you won't find him listed in officers' records. Generally speaking, it's nearly impossible to find a service record of a man who died in service.

Civil registration of deaths was patchy in England in the early days of civil registration and I expect it was less than 100% in Ireland.

You - or a researcher - might have some luck piecing together a military history from the pay and muster lists.
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Re: Can anyone help me please

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:01 am

This doesn't help with the death certificate, but Peter is correct - your Farrier Major was a senior NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer) and the term "Farrier Major" should never be abbreviated to Major - hence he won't be found in the Army Lists as these were for Commissioned Officers. Part of the confusion comes from the fact that civilians like us often think titles like "Regimental Sergeant Major" are ranks, when they're not - they are appointments (i.e. job-titles). An RSM's rank today would be something like Warrant Officer Class 1 - though I'm not sure if all RSMs of all regiments merit the same rank.

The Household Cavalry of today have Farrier Corporal Majors and Farrier Sergeant Majors - however, I suspect any individual regiment back then could differ from today's practice and the 8th Hussars might well have had a Farrier Major rather than an FCM or FSM. As an analogy, even today, the British Army has Pipe Majors and Drum Majors, who are senior NCOs of varying ranks - and in their case there is definitely no "Corporal" or "Sergeant" in the middle of their title.

If you look at his arm in the photo, you will see a crown over four(?) stripes, with a horse-shoe between. The horse-shoe is the trade badge for a farrier. The crown and four stripes should tell someone the rank Samuel held when the photo was taken but I'm not going to try to work that out as ranks and rank insignia changed so much in the 1800s, other than to say it's the style of a senior NCO such as a Warrant Officer.
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Re: Can anyone help me please

Postby 2012girl » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:19 pm

The only Boon B/M/D's registered in Longford around that period are the Samuel Boon death in 1872, presumably the son you mentioned, and the birth of a John Boon, also in 1872, possibly another son?

You say the GRO in Ireland have been unable to locate a death certificate for him too so, unless he died elsewhere, you have to wonder if his death was simply not registered? You might want to have a read of this article regarding the GRO in Ireland:

http://timeline.ie/general-register-office/

I have a couple of missing Irish births/deaths and it does state that some events went unregistered. It also mentions that occasionally some records were missed and not forwarded from the local register office to the GRO during the copying process. Would it be worth contacting Longford register office, as opposed to the GRO, to double check this did not happen in Samuel's case? I don't suppose anything could have been recorded in the local newspapers regarding his death/funeral? Unfortunately, it could be that Samuels death was one that slipped through the net.

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Can anyone help me please

Postby pete25 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:32 pm

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for all your replies...very interesting and helpful replies at that.

The family story goes that Samuel Boon was also a qualified veterinary surgeon. I understand Samuel was working on a horse and the horses saliva somehow found its way into Samuels mouth and not long after Samuel died. I also understand the horse had a disease, which contributed in Samuels death. This has been the family story for many years that I can remember.

I also believe, via family story, Samuel Boon was close to moving further up in his rank just before he died. Also, after when Samuel died, this was when my 2x great grandmother and family (including my great grandmother) decided to move back to Manchester. My 2x great grandmother Ann Boon is buried in Southern Cemetery, Manchester.

Samuel did die in Co Longford because I believe the army barracks were once just across the road, or very close, to the Parish Church of Temple Michael. A very nice chap, who lives in Co Longford, took the grave photo for me and also took it upon himself to take pictures of parts of the remaining once Army Barracks of Co Longford. This chap, I was lucky, also said he's very interested in researching the 8th Hussars of Co Longford and was very happy to take pictures and send them to me.

Thank you so much everyone...much appreciated.


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Re: Can anyone help me please

Postby pete25 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:12 pm

Just Taken a look at my family history tree and the mentioned 'John Boon' was born on the 8th August, 1872, Co Longford, Ireland. John was also baptised in the Parish Church of Temple Michael, Co Longford, Ireland.

I am now going to send for the death certificate for Samuel Boon Jr. And the birth certificate for his brother John...thank you for the link,

Peter.


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Re: Can anyone help me please

Postby 2012girl » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:46 pm

Hi Peter,

If you are going to order up those certificates then it's best to order them direct from the GRO in Ireland rather than any other geneaology sites, to avoid any extra charges for ordering them on your behalf:

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-f ... cates.aspx

If you quote the reference numbers on the application form and request a photocopy of then entry that is the cheapest option, you can have it emailed to you if you wish or order a copy to be sent through the post.

Death - Samuel Boon, 1872, Longford, vol 8 pg 172, age 2
Birth - John Boon, 1872, Longford, vol 8 pg 249

Was Samuel Jnr born in Ireland? Do you have a birth certificate for him, or was that not registered either?

Good luck,

Jill
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Re: Can anyone help me please

Postby pete25 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:00 pm

Hi Jill,

It doesn't appear that Samuel Boon Jrs, birth was registered...just his death.

The cost of each certificate, via the link you so kindly gave me, is £14:53
I should receive back the original digitized images within five working days via email.

Thank you so much Jill and others for all your help..this website never ceases to amaze me how helpful people are after I ask for help and assistance.

Yours most grateful,

Peter.


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