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Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

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Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:18 pm

I have been trying to find a marriage for my great great grandparents and having exhausted just about every avenue open to me, I am just about ready to throw in the towel! Any help / advice will be gratefully received.
Names are John Henry (known as George on the 1881) Clayton born c1838 in Loughrea, County Galway, Ireland and Sarah Elizabeth Hutton born c1847 in Liverpool, Lancs.
I have them on the 1881,1891 & 1901 London Census which are absolutely right. All the family are known to me. Can't find them on the 1871 for some reason but they must have been together because their first child John Henry was born 28 Aug 1870. His birth cert lists the parents exactly as above. Father a hotel waiter which matches subsequent census. My great grandfather William James Clayton was born 10 Feb 1872, again parents details were the same & father's occupation was hotel waiter. All the way through, the family have been very precise with completing the census forms, birth registrations etc.
I found one marriage which I thought was right until I received the certificate. This was dated 05 Nov 1871 for a John Clayton & Sarah Hutton, Holborn, Catholic Church but John's age wasn't right & it listed him as a gentleman's assistant & his father as a Gentleman. Highly unlikely. The address didn't fit either. I am sure these are not my ancestors. I also have no idea whether or not mine were Catholic but there are none in my family going forward.
So, I'm stuck. I can't trace Sarah's family without the name of her father & trying to trace John's family in Ireland without a father's name will be practically impossible.
Thanks so much in advance for any help.
Regards, Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Sylcec » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:31 pm

Have you done an address search in 1871 based on the address recorded as John Henry's place of birth in 1870?

Given that John Henry (George) snr was born in Ireland and his wife Sarah is from Liverpool (per 1881 census) - I wonder if she also was of Irish stock and if they could have married in Ireland. However, the two most likely 1851 census hits both show a father William also born in Lancashire - Liverpool (a carpenter) or Eccleston? (a platelayer)

I would not dismiss the marriage you found, just because the John Clayton concerned said his father was a gentleman. This is a term used very loosely to cover a multitude of occupations, or even unemployment. How much different was his age from what you expected?
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:57 pm

Hi, thanks for replying. I tried an address search for 7 Vine Terrace, Waterloo Rd, Lambeth on FindmyPast. Nothing. But I don't find much on that site anymore! I don't know how to do that on Ancestry. John snr age in 1871 should be 33. A big difference. Also, he's named himself as a hotel waiter from 1870 through to 1901. I can't see him calling himself a gentleman's servant on the marriage. Doesn't fit for me. I've been researching this pair for years. So frustrating!

Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:15 am

Hi Again
By the way, I've always thought that perhaps John's family left Ireland around the time of the famine. Liverpool was a logical port to land in for the Irish. So marrying a Liverpool girl fits.
I've visited Loughrea, Galway where he supposedly came from. I was told that Clayton isn't a Catholic name in Ireland. So perhaps another negative for that marriage certificate.
The other address search that might be worth a look is 16 Swan Street, Whitechapel which was where William James was born in 1872. However, again, I didn't get a hit on FindmyPast.
Thanks for trying to help. I really appreciate it.

Maddy
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Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Mick Loney » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:35 am

Hi,

Have you considered that:-
A) Sarah Elizabeth was a widow on their marriage? - Look for a marriage, just using forenames for Sarah Elizabeth, then look through likely candidates, to see if fathers surname was Hutton.

B) They didn't marry when you thought they did? Try expanding timeframe to cover later years.

As for the census, try searching just for their first child! You can be quite specific with the age, as it was too soon after the birth for them to get it wrong. Sometimes, too much information can cause search to fail.

Mike


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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Sylcec » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:52 am

Unfortunately 16 Swan Street,Whitechapel in 1871 was occupied by Isaac Rosenthal, a boot maker from Poland and his family. Still working on Vine Terrace, Waterloo Road.
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Pennie » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:36 am

I also wondered whether John/George and Sarah travelled back and forward to his family in Ireland - it would explain the absence of a marriage record in the GRO indexes and possibly also their absence on the 1871 census (possibly taking six-month-old John Henry to visit his paternal family?).

Could you please post the age of John CLAYTON and his father's name from the marriage certificate that you have - I would like to check something out!

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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:53 pm

Hi Pennie
If you are referring to John Henry senior's marriage, that's the one I'm looking for. If you mean John Henry junior, his age is quoted as 22 and his father is John, a waiter. On the marriage cert of the younger son (my great grandfather) William James, the father's name is George, a waiter. Don't know why he kept changing from John to George.

Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:03 pm

Hi Mick
Thanks for your suggestions. I have run many searches across the country and for a vast time frame (many years) just in case they married much later or even earlier than I thought. So far, I haven't found anything that fits.

I have also searched the 1871 census for John Henry junior but couldn't find him, or not one that was either the right age or with similar family names etc. I have his birth cert, so know exactly when he was born.

It's not inconceivable that Sarah might have been a widow. She was aprox 23 when she gave birth to John Henry junior. It did cross my mind that that may have been the case, so I will revisit that search.

Thanks for your help.

Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Pennie » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:15 pm

Sorry, Maddy, I possibly didn't make myself clear enough! The details I wanted were those from the "incorrect" Holborn marriage certificate.

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