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Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

A problem shared is a problem halved. Post your brick walls here and see whether you can offer advice to others

Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:40 pm

Hi Pennie

Sorry! I'll describe the marriage cert details:

Fifth November 1871
John Clayton/27 years/Bachelor/Gentlemans' Servant/28 Leather Lane/Thomas Clayton/Gentleman
Sarah Hutton/24 years/Spinster/-------------------------/Same place / William Hutton/ Plate Worker

Married in the Chapel of St Bridget's Catholic Church, Holborn
Witnesses: John Colbourne & E.C. Whit

You've made me curious now! Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards, Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby sclater » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:47 am

I think I may have found your John Henry Clayton senior in the 1851 census in Durham at Durham Grammar School but listed as Henry John.
Henry John Clayton
Pupil 12yrs Galway, Ireland.
I did a little research into the school and found it was a boarding school during this time. Could this possibly relate to the record you have of the father being a gentleman?
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby 2012girl » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:26 am

Hi Maddy,

Do you think you may be dismissing the marriage you found too quickly? If you're thinking of Gentleman as being a man of means, and that's why it doesn't seem a good fit, then why was this John Clayton working as a servant if his father was a Gentleman?

People lied about ages to minimise age gaps and sometimes invented/embellished father's details to appear more respectable. Your John Henry is aged 39 on the 1881 census, where he is named George, but in 1891 he is aged 53. So which age was correct? And why, on occasion, is he named as George? So you do already have some descrepancies with the family.

I notice there is a Maude Clayton, aged 3, living with the family in 1881 and described as a Niece. Who were her parents?

The Sarah Hutton on the marriage certificate you have says her father was William Hutton, Platelayer, this is a possible match for the Sarah Hutton, born 1847 in West Derby (a suburb of Liverpool) who's fathers details match up with this on the 1851 census, as mentioned by Sylvia. This girl doesn't appear to have Elizabeth as a second name but is your Sarah only a Sarah Elizabeth on the children's birth certificates as she's not recorded as such on the census records?

I'm not saying this marriage is correct, and if it is then it took place after their first child was born, but I would keep an open mind for now and not dismiss it entirely based on John's age being a few years out. There does appear to have been an age discrepancy between the two and he may have been a little economical with the truth when giving his father's details.

Jill
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:35 pm

Hi, thank so much for your research. I need to try & establish if that marriage cert is really mine. My John Henry came from Loughrea, County Galway. So, your boarding school boy comes from the right area but unfortunately there are so many John Claytons out there, I guess I need some more proof. I will keep your info in the back of my mind though. Thanks!

Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:23 am

Hi Jill
Thanks very much for your reply. I can see that perhaps I have been hasty in dismissing that marriage certificate. I think I was initially disappointed that it didn't match all my other records. I've always been careful to authenticate my research & because there are so many Claytons & Huttons out there, I just couldn't see a way to prove the marriage was right.
Funnily enough, I saw the 1847 Sarah Hutton birth some time ago but again, couldn't prove it was mine. I'm going to look at the niece, Maude Clayton & see where that leads me. Also, incredibly, I have a relatively new friend who's family came from Loughrea! She's going "home" in May & the family are so intrigued by my story, they are going to do some research for me. That isn't to say that I'm not going to plough on, myself. Everyone on WDYTYA has been so helpful & I clearly have a lot of avenues yet to explore. Thank you.

Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby 2012girl » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:11 am

Hi Maddy,

I think looking at Maude is a good idea. If she was a Niece and her surname was Clayton, and it didn't just get dittoed along with the rest of the family on the census, then one of her parents must have been John's sibling.

I had a quick look yesterday, does it say Ilford, Essex for her birthplace? I didn't come across her on any later census.

I have found a Maude Clayton baptised 17th Mar 1878, St John Of Jerusalem Hackney to a James & Elizabeth Clayton but not sure if this is same Maude? The father was a porter. There were other children born to this couple (records are on ancestry) but I can't locate the family for certain on the census to see where the parents were from.

There was a James Clayton (occupation porter, father Charles Clayton) who married an Eliza Verrant (widow) in 1870. I think they are living in Bethnal Green in 1871 and he was from Herts but as I can't locate them again with any children I'm unsure if they are the parents of Maude or the other children mentioned. Definitely worth looking at any possible Maude Clayton's though, even just for elimination purposes, to see if you can identify her parents or pick up on any more clues.

Best of luck,

Jill
Last edited by 2012girl on Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Pennie » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:15 am

Hi Maddy ...

My reason for requesting the information from that Holborn marriage certificate is that I was hoping to find this John on a previous or subsequent census. Sometimes it's easier to "disprove" something (ie. that this John and Sarah are NOT yours) than to prove that they are. Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate this John conclusively on any census.

I have also had a search for neice Maude - in censuses, birth/baptism records etc. - but, again, have failed to locate her.

Pennie
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby Maddyco » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:36 pm

Thanks everyone for your input so far. I'm ploughing on with all the leads you've given me. Have hit a few more dead ends but won't give up. Might take some time but I'm sure I'll establish who's who in the end.

Maddy
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby calno4 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:08 am

Maddyco,
Maybe Vine Terrace was Vine Street in Waterloo. Vine Street originally ran from the site of Waterloo Station, across York Road and Belvedere Road. Most of this area was redeveloped after World War II. Heres a photo of No 6 and 7 Vine Street
6 and 7 vine street.jpg
6 and 7 vine street.jpg (150.69 KiB) Viewed 974 times
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Re: Clayton Marriage Brick Wall

Postby MayHam » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:27 pm

For what it's worth, Sarah Elizabeth (Hutton) Clayton *may* have been registered as Eliza Sarah in 1845, according to the GRO. Her brother, Alfred Hutton, was registered in 1850. Their parents were Alfred & Sarah (Pratt) Hutton, Sr. They're in St. Pancras in the 1851 census.

Eliza Sarah disappears after that but her mother and brother are found in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire in 1861 and Holborn in 1871. Recalled you saying Sarah Hutton married John Clayton in Holborn on 5 November 1871 ... coincidence?
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