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Santus France 1817

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Santus France 1817

Postby Phizz » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:25 pm

According to all census Edward was born France 1817 British Subject. James Santus was born Weedon Barracks 1814. How can I discover if they were brothers? Were families allowed to join the soldiers after Waterloo? I cannot find any details of the father
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby Sylcec » Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:01 am

But surely you have the name of James Santus's father, as you have his birth at Weedon Barracks?
The name SANTUS does not appear on the Waterloo medal roll. Could that have been a Latinised version of another name? You may have to stretch the spelling options wider.
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ksouthall » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:34 am

Some wives and families travelled with the soldiers. Two of my great-great-great-uncles were born in France shortly after the Napoleonic wars, in 1817 and 1818. Their four younger siblings, including my great-great-great-grandmother, were all born back in England. (There may have been other siblings who died in infancy.)

I was able to obtain a copy of the birth certificate for one of my relatives born in France by checking the GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924) on FindMyPast, then ordering the birth certificate from the GRO.

If you have a copy of the baptism record from Weedon in 1814, you could compare the father's details.
Last edited by ksouthall on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ksouthall » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:37 am

p.s. The father of the two brothers mentioned in my previous post was in the 5th Regiment of Foot. Although he served during the Napoleonic Wars, he did not fight at Waterloo so does not appear in the Waterloo Medal Roll.

The Waterloo Medal Roll only lists soldiers who took part in that battle, so does not list all soldiers who fought in the Napoleonic Wars.
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ksouthall » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:06 am

Phizz wrote:According to all census Edward was born France 1817 British Subject. James Santus was born Weedon Barracks 1814. How can I discover if they were brothers? Were families allowed to join the soldiers after Waterloo? I cannot find any details of the father


I am guessing you have James' place of birth from the 1861, 1871 and1881 Censuses? This does suggest that James probably came from a military family. (One of my ancestors was stationed at Weedon Barracks in about 1813.)

There is a marriage record for James Santus and Mary Stockley in Wigan in 1835 on Ancestry.co.uk. Both Mary and James do not seem to have been able to write as both left a mark, rather than a signature. Neither of their father's names are listed. The witnesses do not appear to be obviously related.

What records do you have for both James and Edward?
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ksouthall » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:23 am

I've found James Santus and Mary in 1841 in Wigan, with a 4 year old daughter, Alice. James was a collier. He does claim to have been born in Wigan but this could be a mistake.

In 1851, I found James and Mary in Wigan with 5 children: Alice (13), John (9); Christopher (7); Susan (4) and William (1).

It looks like they may have had three sons called James, all of whom died in infancy, in 1849, 1854 and 1857.

NB An Ann Santus had a son called James in 1844. I am not sure of her connection yet.

In 1841, Edward Santus was living in Wigan with 60 year old housekeeper, Mary Santus and 15 year old Elizabeth Santus - probably his mother and sister.

I have found Edward Santus and Alice Blakelege in the 1851 Census in Wigan. They appear to have been living together with their two young children. I don't know yet if they ever married.
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ColinB » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:26 am

If you have taken the birthplaces from the census then I imagine you do not have the father's name. I have checked the GRO Regimental Birth Indices and came up with nothing. I think the following are probably the 1841 entries for each man :

In School Lane , Wigan

James Santus 30 collier , N
Mary Santus 25 , Y
Alice Santus 4, Y

School Common , Wigan

Mary Santus 60 housekeeper
Edward Santus 25 , Y
Elizabeth Santus 15 , Y
( I would have expected Edward's entry to be marked no , not yes , but wouldn't rule it out ).

I've tried looking for family members in Ancestry Lancashire collection , but had more luck with the Lancs OPC site :http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ and found a few leads:

Baptized at All Saints , Wigan -

Christopher Santus 20 Jan 1810 ( born 14 Jan ) 4th son of Christopher Santus , soldier , and Mary , nee Marsh of Scholes.
William Santus 21 Oct 1820 ( 23 Sep) 6th son of Christopher Santus , miner , and Mary of Scholes.
Elizabeth Santus 7 Apr 1826 ( 6 Dec 1825 ) 3rd daughter of Christopher Santus , spinner , and Mary of Scholes.

Married at All Saints , Wigan :

Elizabeth Santus , father Christopher deceased , and Thomas Wilkinson , 16 Jun 1844.

Married at St Aidan's , Billinge
Christopher Santhouse , collier of this parish , and Mary Marsh , 14 Jan 1799.

I note that James Santus named one of his sons Christopher which may indicate a connection. I've found nothing so far to confirm that James and Edward are brothers.

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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ksouthall » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:40 am

There is a possible marriage for Edward Santus and Alice Blacklege on 22nd December 1855 at St George's Church in Wigan.

The Lancashire records office may be able to provide you with a copy which would hopefully list Edward's father. Alternatively, the GRO Reference is as follows:-

First name(s): ALICE
Last name: BLAKELEDGE
Marriage quarter: 4
Marriage year: 1855
ALICE BLAKELEDGE married one of these people JAMES UNSWORTH, EDWARD SANTERS
District: WIGAN
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8C
Page: 91
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ksouthall » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:56 am

ColinB wrote:..... 1841 ..... :

School Common , Wigan

Mary Santus 60 housekeeper
Edward Santus 25 , Y
Elizabeth Santus 15 , Y
( I would have expected Edward's entry to be marked no , not yes , but wouldn't rule it out ).

Colin


Colin is right. The place of birth in the census is not always reliable. Places of birth listed in each census for my ancestor, who I know was born in France, are as follows:-

1841 - Not yet found
1851 - British Subject, France
1861 - Middlesex, England
1871 - Crediton, Devon (two of his siblings were born there)
1881 - Crediton, Devon

He may not have known his place of birth and just gone along with what his siblings said, or his wife may have told the enumerator where she thought he was born. Relationships between England and France could also have affected where he claimed to have been.
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Re: Santus France 1817

Postby ColinB » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:03 pm

I noticed a John Santus , miner , b 1802 in Plymouth but living in School Common , Wigan. I looked for a baptism and found John Santus bap. 10 Oct 1802 at Plymouth , Stoke Damerel , Devonport, parents Christopher and Mary Santus. Occupation is not given but it is quite likely to be military , given the location.

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