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Peter Bailey (British in India)

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Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby Debra03 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:31 pm

Hi. I discovered that my 3rd Great Grandfather was Henry Briggs born 15 Feb 1819 St. Mary's, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, died 2 Mar 1883 London, Clerkenwell, Middlesex. He was private #1746 in HM 32nd Light Infantry Regiment, 1839-1859. I have his military records from the National Archives. He married Mary Barrington of Regent Rd., Salford, 12 Jun 1844. St. Mary, Manchester, Lancashire, while at Salford Barracks. His Father, Henry Briggs a laborer. Her Father, William Barrington, a farmer.

The next time I find Henry is when marrying my 3rd Great Grandmother Caroline Morris/Wyatt 29 Aug 1861 in London. Then on the 1871 census he and his Son Joseph (born 2 Nov 1850 Bengal, East Indies, Jelundah, British (CHR JULLUNDUR), died 15 Jul 1908, Plymouth, Devon, England), living in Clerkenwell, London, with Caroline.

Henry's company left fro Cork Ireland aboard The Duchess of Northumberland for Calcutta, 11 May 1846, arrived Sep 1846. There were many wives and children of the soldiers on board also. I have not been able to determine if his wife Mary was with him but she probably was as she never appears anywhere else ever again. I know he and his son Joseph survived the Siege of Lucknow as he was awarded the Defense of Lucknow medal.

I have found the following births registered to Mary and Henry Briggs at times and places that seem to match the 32nd Regiment's movement.

Edward Briggs born 1845,?, died 13 Oct 1846, buried Chinsurah, Bengal, age 1, Father Henry Briggs, no mother mentioned. Indexing Project(Batch Number) B39312-7, India-Easy, GS Film number 498984. (Just after the troops arrived in India)

Emma Briggs born 14 Feb 1848 Chr., Umballa,Bengal, India. Died 7 Nov 1848 Umballa, Bengal, India.
Father Henry Briggs, Mother Mary. Indexing Project (Batch) Number C75005-4 System Origin:India-Easygs Film Number 498986 Reference ID:v 73 p 81.
Burial 8 Nov 1848 Umballa, Bengal, India. Age 0. Father Briggs. Indexing Project Number B 39595-3. Gs Film # 498986.

Mary Briggs born 25 Aug 1853. Christening 11 Sep 1853 Peshawar, Bengal, India.
Father Henry Briggs, Mother Mary. Indexing Project (Batch) Number C75005-9. System Origin India-ODM GS Film Number 498991.
No death info.

So my questions are. What happened to his wife Mary? Was she killed in India?
Were those their children who also were born and died in India?
If so where are they buried if they were...
How do I find out?

Also. Henry was discharged 9 Feb 1859. Intended place of residence was Notley Farm, probably to convalesce. Where is this? I found either Notley Farm Chearsley Rd., Long Crendon, Nr. Aylesbury, Bucks and Mr. Charles Notley's Farm at Codford, St. Mary? Any idea which if either place it was?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Than you so much.

Debra :-)
Debra03
 
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Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby lottie's mum » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:15 pm

Dear Peter

I am researching Joseph Terence Owen Barnard Deputy commissioner of Burma. He was born in Bombay to Lieut J Barnard, Senior Barrack Master on 21st April 1872. I have found a marriage record on FIBIS for him to Ann Kinlay, daughter of U Pon Naga on 5th June 1909 in Myitkylna, Bombay. This is the same date as the baptisms of 4 children, Alice born 1898, Norah born 1901, Elizabeth born 1909 and John born 1908. What puzzles me is that his obituary (in the Times on Nov 20 1936) says that they were married in 1896. Would the marriage in 1909 have been a formality to enable the baptisms to take place in addition to the marriage of 1896 or did a marriage of 1896 not exist?

Pauline
lottie's mum
 
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Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby mjob » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:27 pm

My grandfather Edward O'Brien was born in Subathoo, Bengal on November 9th, 1885. His mother was Alice O'Brien, nee Power, born in Clonmel, Tipperary in 1853. His father John O'Brien had married Alice on May 12th, 1882 whilst he was based in the Infantry Barracks in Clonmel, having enlisted in 1879, aged 21. He was born in Limerick in 1858. I don't know when they left for India, only that my grandfather was born in 1885. By 1901, Alice was back in Clonmel with the growing family, though Edward was the only one born in India. In that census, it says that John is a colour sergeant with the RIR in Woking, Aldershot. By 1911, John is widowed and at home in Clonmel with his family and has left the army and opened a grocer's shop.
Is it possible to find out anything about his career, especially what he would have been doing in Bengal? One family story is that he was with the Bengal Lancers, but this could be fanciful. I would be grateful for any pointers.
MJOB
mjob
 
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Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby BritInd » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:53 am

juliespav wrote:Hi Peter

My Great Grandfather James Henry Shore was born 04.10.1857 in Chunar, Bengal, to James Shore and Eliza Shore [Ireland]. James Shore died 12.09.1857 in Allahabad from Dysentry, he was in the European Invalid Battalion.
James and Eliza married 12.09.1837 in Cawnpore, Bengal. On the marriage record James has a birth year of 1809, and was a Bombadier Foot Battalion.
I have not been able to find James Shore b 1809 service records, do you have any suggestions as to how I can trace him either back in Britain or before 1837 in India?
Eliza was (I believe) baptised 15.12.1823 in Dinapore, Bengal, to parents William Ireland and Lucy Ireland [Hill] who married 30.09.1822 in Fort William, Bengal. Any idea how to find more information on these two, were they born in India as well or did where did they come from in Britain?
Any suggestions gratefully received!

Many thanks, Julie


Hello Julie,

I am sorry to say that there would have been no official full service record available for James Shore (1809-1857). However, I recommend that you take a look at the “Soldiers’ Service” Records which were commenced in 1831 for a summary of his service. Since he entered the service in Bengal before 1831 and his surname initial letter is ‘S’, this record should feature in India Office Record L/MIL/10/123 (LDS Film No. 1867445) and should give his place of birth in Britain. You might then like to search the parish records there.

With regard to Eliza, my bet is that William Ireland was also a soldier. However since his occupation is probably not mentioned in his marriage entry (??) it will be necessary to look through the list of regiments who were stationed in Fort William in 1822. Then search their Muster Lists in the EIC Army or British Army to see if you can find a William Ireland who might qualify as Eliza’s father. This might lead to a place of birth in Britain somewhere.

Best wishes – Peter
BritInd
 
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Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby BritInd » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:58 am

mjob wrote:My grandfather Edward O'Brien was born in Subathoo, Bengal on November 9th, 1885. His mother was Alice O'Brien, nee Power, born in Clonmel, Tipperary in 1853. His father John O'Brien had married Alice on May 12th, 1882 whilst he was based in the Infantry Barracks in Clonmel, having enlisted in 1879, aged 21. He was born in Limerick in 1858. I don't know when they left for India, only that my grandfather was born in 1885. By 1901, Alice was back in Clonmel with the growing family, though Edward was the only one born in India. In that census, it says that John is a colour sergeant with the RIR in Woking, Aldershot. By 1911, John is widowed and at home in Clonmel with his family and has left the army and opened a grocer's shop.
Is it possible to find out anything about his career, especially what he would have been doing in Bengal? One family story is that he was with the Bengal Lancers, but this could be fanciful. I would be grateful for any pointers.
MJOB


Dear MJOB,

I'm afraid that you will have to refer to the records of the Royal Irish Rangers to find out where the
regiment was posted at different times in Edward's career. He could well have served with them in India, and been garrisoned with the Bengal Lancers somewhere. But, only officers of the Indian Army served with any of the Bengal Lancer regiments and so I feel that the story is rather fanciful.

Best wishes - Peter
BritInd
 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:28 am

Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby BritInd » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:02 am

lottie's mum wrote:Dear Peter

I am researching Joseph Terence Owen Barnard Deputy commissioner of Burma. He was born in Bombay to Lieut J Barnard, Senior Barrack Master on 21st April 1872. I have found a marriage record on FIBIS for him to Ann Kinlay, daughter of U Pon Naga on 5th June 1909 in Myitkylna, Bombay. This is the same date as the baptisms of 4 children, Alice born 1898, Norah born 1901, Elizabeth born 1909 and John born 1908. What puzzles me is that his obituary (in the Times on Nov 20 1936) says that they were married in 1896. Would the marriage in 1909 have been a formality to enable the baptisms to take place in addition to the marriage of 1896 or did a marriage of 1896 not exist?

Pauline


Hello Pauline,

My suspicion is that Joseph Barnard had been living with this Burmese woman and then, rather late, decided to formalize matters, possibly to regularize matters for his pension. No doubt for the Times' obituary someone posted a date when the couple originally got together to make matters "look right"

Best wishes - Peter
BritInd
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:28 am

Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby BritInd » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:13 am

Debra03 wrote:Hi. I discovered that my 3rd Great Grandfather was Henry Briggs born 15 Feb 1819 St. Mary's, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, died 2 Mar 1883 London, Clerkenwell, Middlesex. He was private #1746 in HM 32nd Light Infantry Regiment, 1839-1859. I have his military records from the National Archives. He married Mary Barrington of Regent Rd., Salford, 12 Jun 1844. St. Mary, Manchester, Lancashire, while at Salford Barracks. His Father, Henry Briggs a laborer. Her Father, William Barrington, a farmer.

The next time I find Henry is when marrying my 3rd Great Grandmother Caroline Morris/Wyatt 29 Aug 1861 in London. Then on the 1871 census he and his Son Joseph (born 2 Nov 1850 Bengal, East Indies, Jelundah, British (CHR JULLUNDUR), died 15 Jul 1908, Plymouth, Devon, England), living in Clerkenwell, London, with Caroline.

Henry's company left fro Cork Ireland aboard The Duchess of Northumberland for Calcutta, 11 May 1846, arrived Sep 1846. There were many wives and children of the soldiers on board also. I have not been able to determine if his wife Mary was with him but she probably was as she never appears anywhere else ever again. I know he and his son Joseph survived the Siege of Lucknow as he was awarded the Defense of Lucknow medal.

I have found the following births registered to Mary and Henry Briggs at times and places that seem to match the 32nd Regiment's movement.

Edward Briggs born 1845,?, died 13 Oct 1846, buried Chinsurah, Bengal, age 1, Father Henry Briggs, no mother mentioned. Indexing Project(Batch Number) B39312-7, India-Easy, GS Film number 498984. (Just after the troops arrived in India)

Emma Briggs born 14 Feb 1848 Chr., Umballa,Bengal, India. Died 7 Nov 1848 Umballa, Bengal, India.
Father Henry Briggs, Mother Mary. Indexing Project (Batch) Number C75005-4 System Origin:India-Easygs Film Number 498986 Reference ID:v 73 p 81.
Burial 8 Nov 1848 Umballa, Bengal, India. Age 0. Father Briggs. Indexing Project Number B 39595-3. Gs Film # 498986.

Mary Briggs born 25 Aug 1853. Christening 11 Sep 1853 Peshawar, Bengal, India.
Father Henry Briggs, Mother Mary. Indexing Project (Batch) Number C75005-9. System Origin India-ODM GS Film Number 498991.
No death info.

So my questions are. What happened to his wife Mary? Was she killed in India?
Were those their children who also were born and died in India?
If so where are they buried if they were...
How do I find out?

Also. Henry was discharged 9 Feb 1859. Intended place of residence was Notley Farm, probably to convalesce. Where is this? I found either Notley Farm Chearsley Rd., Long Crendon, Nr. Aylesbury, Bucks and Mr. Charles Notley's Farm at Codford, St. Mary? Any idea which if either place it was?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Than you so much.

Debra :-)


Dear Debra

First of all, I suppose that you have looked for Mary's death in the India Office Records at the British Library. These records are also available on FamilySearch and now on FindMyPast. If they are not there, her death might have been recorded in the records of the Regimental Chaplain of the regiment in India and then sent back directly to England where they are obtainable from the General Registry Office in Southport. Evidently, they were all buried where they died. Burials had to be conducted very quickly in India because of the heat.

Could the word have been NETley and not Notley? Netley was near Southampton and had a hospital for returning ill soldiers and there was, sadly, a cemetery associated with it.

With best wishes - Peter
BritInd
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:28 am

Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby BritInd » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:15 am

lottie's mum wrote:Dear Peter

I am researching Joseph Terence Owen Barnard Deputy commissioner of Burma. He was born in Bombay to Lieut J Barnard, Senior Barrack Master on 21st April 1872. I have found a marriage record on FIBIS for him to Ann Kinlay, daughter of U Pon Naga on 5th June 1909 in Myitkylna, Bombay. This is the same date as the baptisms of 4 children, Alice born 1898, Norah born 1901, Elizabeth born 1909 and John born 1908. What puzzles me is that his obituary (in the Times on Nov 20 1936) says that they were married in 1896. Would the marriage in 1909 have been a formality to enable the baptisms to take place in addition to the marriage of 1896 or did a marriage of 1896 not exist?

Pauline


Hello Pauline,

My suspicion is that Joseph Barnard had been living with this Burmese woman and then, rather late, decided to formalize matters, possibly to regularize matters for his pension. No doubt for the Times' obituary someone posted a date when the couple originally got together to make matters "look right"

Best wishes - Peter
BritInd
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:28 am

Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby BritInd » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:18 am

ewanarm wrote:Hi

I am currently struggling with my great grandfather Frederick Sanders Lakeman who was born in Ceylon in 1856. He was the son of Stephen Lakeman and Emma Charlotte Sanders. Stephen was a coffee planter and I have found out that Frederick was orphaned by 1866. Any advice into finding further records in Ceylon would be appreciated

Many thanks

Regards

Ewan Armstrong


Hello Ewan,

I am sorry to have to explain that most of the records for Ceylon do not feature in the India Office Records and so are not gathered in London. A few are available in the National Archives but the official baptism, marriage and burials are, by reputation at least, are only available in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) itself.
Now, there are a number of specialist books on Coffee Planters in Ceylon which might contain references to the Lakemans but don’t forget that Coffee was virtually wiped out by the leaf disease in the mid-1850s. From then on they experimented very successfully with a switch to Tea.
I have looked at the renowned Penry-Lewis “Tombstones & Monuments in Ceylon” which feature on the FIBIS website, but with no success. However, that said, the FIBIS database does include a number of references to announcements of births of children to Stephen Lakeman and his wife over the dates 1847-1851. These have been transcribed from Allen’s Indian Mail, which sometimes included references to events in Ceylon. Sadly the family must have given up paying for such announcements before 1856 and so there is no mention of Fredrick Sanders Lakeman.

Good Hunting! - Peter
BritInd
 
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Re: Peter Bailey (British in India)

Postby BritInd » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:19 am

Sylcec wrote:Hi Peter - good to see you on this forum!!

From Bengal Soldiers Registers, William Johnson attested London 2 Apr 1856 for 12 years, served as Gunner 4 Co. 3 Battalion Bengal Artillery, with Regtl No. ?8971. He took his discharge in June 1859 per ?GGO 883.

Your book "Researching Ancestors in the East India Company Armies" (FIBIS guide no.1), p.51 has a list of Ref Nos for L/MIL/10/308 spread over 9 LDS films; ref nos starting 1 - 5849.
Question: is there any way of knowing or estimating where William Johnson of 4 Co 3Bn may show up in this list?

(By the way - there were at least 20 men named William Johnson or Johnston/e who attested for Bengal army in the period 1850-1856; but the above man is the only one whose Co & Bn nos fit with info on his daughter's baptism record).
Thanks- Sylvia


Hello Sylvia,

Thanks - It is good to note that you are a very frequent visitor to this forum.

For most of these lists you will find that the discharged soldiers are entered in alphabetical order (maybe absolute, maybe by first letter of surname). So for William Johnson, you might try to calculate that, with surname initial ‘J’ (10th letter of alphabet) he should feature about 10/26 ths of the way through the list. i.e. LDS Film No. 1867136 or 7. I regret that I am not familiar with the way that the Bengal Artillery ordered this list to know if this is the correct way to go about it. The FIBIS Research service could help.

It is certainly worth pursuing this record since on page 53, you will see an example of the data that you will find which is very infrequently found elsewhere.

Yes, I am afraid that the EIC Armies had a very large number of men with the same Christian Name – Surname combination. His daughter’s baptism record will help to identify him, as you have done.

Best wishes – Peter
BritInd
 
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