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Nicola Morris (Irish ancestors)

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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby Nicola Morris MAPGI » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:08 pm

Maggie Boyd wrote:Hi Nicola,
I'm trying to fill in the gaps for my husband's x2 great grandfather, Essex Kerr who was born in Kiltycooly, Drumcliff, Sligo on 1/7/1856 then appears in the 1881 Scotland Census as a Byreman in North Bute (known as Isaac Kerr from then on). His father was James Kerr, who is in Griffiths Valuation as renting a 48 acre farm from John Wynne(1801-1865). The Kerr family (including his mother, Eliza Williams) were all Presyterian.
My husband's grandfather (Essex Kerr's grandson, who has since died) told us he came over from Ireland because of 'the troubles'. I would like to know if there is any way of finding out if 'the troubles' were eviction or famine, whether any records would have been kept and whether being Presbyterian would have been significant?
I thought last night's programme was excellent and it certainly got me curious again, thanks!
Maggie


Hi Maggie

In order to find out whether the Kerr family were evicted, it should be possible to trace the occupancy of John Kerr’s land holding forward using the Valuation Office Revision Books, which are available through the Valuation Office in Dublin (not online unfortunately). These books were updated versions of Griffith’s Valuation that recorded any changes in the ownership and occupancy of a property. These books might indicate whether the entire family left their land holding or if they remained and only Essex departed.

In order to find out what the situation was like in Sligo in the 1870s, prior to Essex Kerr’s departure, I would recommend that you start looking for local history publications for the parish of Drumcliffe – these can often give the best insight into what was happening in the local area. I know that in the late 1870s the west was hit with crop failures and bad weather and most families would have been struggling to support themselves. This may have been a burden on the Kerr family.

There was a strong Church of Ireland community in Sligo along with some Presbyterian congregations. The period of protest associated with the Land League in the 1880s was not sectarian. The focus of this movement was on the landlords and those who betrayed the boycotts and who grabbed land, regardless of their religious persuasion, so it is unlikely that the Kerr family would have been targeted because of their religion.

I hope this helps

Nicola Morris MAPGI
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby Nicola Morris MAPGI » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:09 pm

Jen70mar wrote:Hi Nicola,
I have hit a brick wall regarding my great great grandfather john Paley. Anything I've found on him (which is not much) states he was born in Ireland, yet I cannot find anything on his birth or immigration to the US. He was born around 1830. He married Jane Carlisle and his children's names were Elizabeth, James, William, David, and Louis. All the children were born in either NY or CT. I would love to take this line back further by finding out his parents names, siblings, and place of birth. Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Jennifer


Hi Jennifer

Not all emigration records survive for the mid 19th century, so it can be difficult to find a passenger list for an emigrant ancestor. It is also possible that John Paley came through Canada. More Irish emigrants went to Canada than the US prior to the 1850s.

In order to find out more about John Paley’s origins in Ireland, I would recommend that you continue to work on US records. A US death certificate for John may state his parents names, as this was common practice in many states. A gravestone or newspaper death notice may also state his place of birth in Ireland. Marriage certificates and marriage licences can also record the parents of the bride and groom.

It might be worth checking to see if any of John’s siblings or parents also emigrated. Have you found any other Paleys living on the same street or settling in the same area. Records for a sibling of John may contain information about their parents.

Another way to identify potential siblings is to check baptismal records for the names of the Godparents of the children. The Godparents were often siblings of the parents.

The surname Paley is very unusual in Ireland, which may make it easier to locate your family in Ireland, but I would recommend that you continue to gather as much information as you can from US records to try and establish John’s parents and place of birth in Ireland.

I hope this helps.

Nicola Morris MAPGI
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby Nicola Morris MAPGI » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:09 pm

Irishstar wrote:Hi Nicola,
My 4th great grandfather Thomas McManus was born about 1794, in Ireland, as shown in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census records. He lived and worked at the Royal Hospital Chelsea. His wife was born in Wiltshire so possibly they married in England. Their first son was born in 1823 in Chelsea. Is there a way I can find out where in Ireland Thomas originated from? Are there any records which might show when and where he travelled from in Ireland to England ?
Many thanks, Carole


Hi Carole

Unfortunately, there were no records kept of travel between Ireland and England, don’t forget these two countries were governed as one in the 19th century. You will have to keep investigating records that document Thomas’ life in England to determine whether any of them state a place of birth in Ireland. Have you tried searching for newspaper marriage announcements, death notices or obituaries, these can sometimes state a place of origin. There may also be employment records for Thomas with the Royal Hospital Chelsea that might record his place of birth.

You could also try searching for evidence of Thomas’s siblings, perhaps acting as Godparents at the baptism of his children. He may have moved to England with other family members and documents for them may provide you with a clue to their origins.

I hope this helps.

Nicola Morris MAPGI
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby callbrian » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:11 pm

Hi Nicola,
Thanks for the reply re Michael Tynan. I will try your suggestions.
Brian
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby teresa78 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:15 pm

Thanks for those suggestions Nicola, Teresa
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby Helen Stanley » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:15 pm

Nicola Morris MAPGI
http://www.timeline.ie[/quote]
Nicola Morris MAPGI wrote:
Helen Stanley wrote:Thank you very much for your offer of help with Irish research. I'm quite experienced, but I'm struggling with this branch of my mothers' family!
The family name is McCoy and I believe that my branch left Mayo in the 1830s and were living in Broseley in Shropshire by 1841. My 3x great grandfather was James, born Mayo, 1806 and his wife Catherine, born 1815ish, Mayo, and a son called John, born in Mayo 1832 details from the Broseley census only. More of James' siblings joined them.
I'm aware that Mayo and Sligo records overlap, but from the forename usage (mostly Bridget) and the flimsy details on the following census, I have come to the shaky conclusion that they are from Ballindoo/Doocastle, in Kilturra Parish, Mayo.
Griffiths valuation gives a Margaret McCoy, landlord Joseph M McDonnell, holding the house and just over an acre of land in Doocastle from John B Lindsey of Turin Castle in the barony of Kilmaine.
I do try really hard to be accurate and I'm concerned that I've made this fit because I want it to be true, but also we're dreaming of going to Mayo for our anniversary next year if we can get the money together and would like to go to the right place! If you could help or suggest some more lines of research I would be very grateful. I do have a lot of forward research if that helps.
Thanks again
Helen Stanley


Hi Helen,

The surname McCoy is not very common to Co. Mayo and using land records to identify potential places of birth is a legitimate route.

Have you tried searching the Tithe Applotment Books. The Tithe Applotment Books were compiled between 1823 and 1838 for the purpose of assessing the rate of the Tithe, a religious tax which was levied for the upkeep of the established church, the Church of Ireland. The Tithe was only applied to certain types of agricultural land. Although the Tithe Applotment Books are limited, they are the most comprehensive record of land holdings in Ireland in the early 19th century.

A survey of the Tithe Applotment Books may help you to establish where there were McCoy households in Co. Mayo in the 1830s, before James McCoy emigrated.

The difficulty with researching some Mayo families is that the parish registers, which record the baptisms and marriages, don’t often survive for the early 19th century. This means that it may be impossible to state with any certainty whether you have found the correct family, unless of course you try the DNA option.

I hope this helps.

Nicola Morris MAPGI
http://www.timeline.ie


Thank you Nicola. Is there a way to access these records on-line, or is there a web site that requires membership that might have Mayo records? Also, how do you think they found out about work in Shropshire at boot makers, when they were the first from Mayo to arrive there?
Last edited by Helen Stanley on Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby Nicola Morris MAPGI » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:17 pm

Felicity wrote:Hello Nicola,

I need some help with my 2x gt grandfather. He was James Whyte and his wife was Margaret Hardiman. James Whyte was a sergeant in the Galway Militia. In 1857 they had a daughter (my ancestor) Catherine Whyte who was born in Peshawar India. I would like to find out more about James; where was he from and why did he join the Galway Militia, where did he marry? Was Margaret Hardiman from Galway? I have always assumed both were Irish.
I have tried to find him at Kew archives but found this experience confusing and came away with nothing. I have traced Catherine's line forward successfully but her parents have eluded me. Can you help please.
Thanks, Felicity



Hi Felicity

Although you should be able to find muster rolls and pay books for the Galway Militia in Kew, these are unlikely to tell you anything more than James’ rank and his period of service, but I would recommend that you continue to pursue a service or pension record for James Whyte as this should state his place of birth and approximate year of birth.

In the 19th century about 30-40% of the British Army was made up of Irishmen and many of the county militias became regiments in the British Army. These recruits were looking for a steady income, food and board as well as adventure. It is also true that the militia were often recruited by the local landlords.

Hardiman is certainly a name associated with Galway but before you can start looking for evidence of this couple you need to try and establish when they were born. Have you located them on any census returns, that might record their ages and places of birth. I would also recommend that you follow the Galway Militia to establish where they were posted at the times when James might have married and had children. You can then start searching for records of those events in the places where they may have taken place.

I hope that this helps.

Nicola Morris MAPGI
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby maresemartha » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:19 pm

Hi Nicola,

I would like to ask you how to go about tracking down one of my great-grandfather's sisters, Nora Enright née Dowling (b. 1881) from Finuge in Co. Kerry.

She seems to have emigrated to New York in or after 1901 (she's in 1901 Irish census) where her three children Nora Jr, Ellie and Timothy were born in the first decade of the 1900s.

However the three children are living with their Dooling grandparents in Kerry in the 1911 census (would this have been the case if their parents were still living?) but no sign of Nora and I can't find any trace of her other than two passenger records from 1904 and 1907 going to and from New York to Cobh with the kids and without her husband Daniel who was based in NY.

I do know that two of her children died in later life (in the US) but I'd love to find out more about Nora - though her trail goes cold after 1907 when she came back to Ireland, presumably Kerry, though she's not in the 1911 census at all. No family members know what happened to her nor do I know when/where she died.

I can't confirm her location in US census as there are many possibilities.

Where should I go from here?

Thanks, Marése
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby Helen Stanley » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:23 pm

Thank you Nicola. Is there a way to access these records on-line, or is there a web site that requires membership that might have Mayo records? Also, how do you think they found out about work in Shropshire at boot makers, when they were the first from Mayo to arrive there? I'm not very familiar with web chats so I think I keep posting in the wrong place, sorry to be a pest!
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Re: Nicola Morris

Postby Nicola Morris MAPGI » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:26 pm

mpcrumbly wrote:Dear Nicola,
I would like some help with where to go next in looking for my ancestors in Cork. I have found my Gt Grandmother Ellen Wall (born 1833) and her parents through looking at the Irish Pension applications. Her younger sister Margaret made the application and I have her family from what seems like a compilation of the information on the 1841 and 1851 censuses. Her parents are shown as William Wall (a butcher) and his wife Johanna Foley. At that time they were resident in Mountmusic, Kilmichael, Muskerry West, Cork, Ireland. From marriage records for Ellen (who married an English soldier), her father was dead by 1871. I would like to trace her parents and also her siblings (there were 4 living by 1851) and would value some pointers as to where to start looking. They were catholic although Ellen married her second (soldier) husband in the established church in Ireland.
Thank you
Margaret


Hi Margaret

Have you tried searching for Ellen’s father, William Wall in Griffith’s Valuation? Griffith's Valuation was a nationwide survey of property holders taken between 1847 and 1864 for the purpose of assessing the rate of local taxation, which was levied for the upkeep of the poor and destitute of the parish. Since most of the census returns for the 19th century have been destroyed, Griffith's acts as a valuable mid-century census substitute.

I have found a reference to William Wall leasing a house and land in Mountmusic in 1852. You can trace his occupancy of this property forward using the Valuation Office Revision Books, which will tell you when William died. If he died after 1864, you can search for his death certificate, which will indicate when he was born. If the Wall property passed to one of William’s sons, this should appear in the Revision Books.

The Roman Catholic parish of Kilmichael has registers that date from 1819 for baptisms and marriages, so it should be possible to search for the baptism of Ellen and all of her siblings. As marriages often took place in the parish of the bride, you can also search these records for the marriage of any of Ellen’s sisters. The registers for Kilmichael are available for free online at www.irishgenealogy.ie

I hope this helps.

Nicola Morris MAPGI
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