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Chris Paton (Scottish ancestors)

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Re: Chris Paton

Postby ChrisPaton1 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:06 pm

Tigertabby wrote:Hello, I have reached a block on two of my Scottish ancestors. Rev Benjamin Laing was born in 1792 in Duns and died in Colmonell in October 1862. His father was Rev Robert Laing who was born in 1750 near Perth probably in the Abernethy area. Robert was a Presbyterian Minister who emigrated to America in 1794 leaving his son Benjamin behind. My Great Aunt commissioned a report from the Scots Ancestory Research Society in 1965 of which I am in possession. This report concluded that Robert Laing was married to Jean Paterson but was unable to find any proof of this marriage or any proof of Benjamin’s birth. I also cannot find evidence on Scotlands People or Ancestory and it is these two facts that I am keen to prove. I do know that they were definitely Father and son. I am also very interested to know if Benjamin had any siblings. Following the 'rule' that first sons were named after their Fathers, it would seem to imply that there may have been siblings.
When Robert went to America he re-married so I am assuming that his first wife Jean died. Robert led a colourful life as a Minister in American and was often rebuked and then re-instated but he was well thought of as after his death a memorial was erected in his memory and I have been able to track him in America including further children that he had, but cannot find the evidence I would like to find in this country. I would be grateful for any pointers that you can give me even if it is just the fact that I may never be able to find this proof!


Biographical entries for most Church of Scotland ministers are recorded in a series called Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae, which often contain details of parents, children, and other relatives, as well as short accounts of careers. These are available on Ancestry and freely on the Internet Archive (www.archive.org). To help find their entry, you will need to identify which synods the parishes they preached in were located, this can be done by looking at the Statistical Accounts for each parish at http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/sas/sa ... &passback= , where it will usually be noted at the start of the account under the parish name. The kirk session records for Robert's parish may also be worth checking – you may find evidence of his departure there. Some kirk session records have been microfilmed by FamilySearch, you may be able to order the relevant film up to view at a family history centre, alternatively copies of most can be consulted in a digital format at the National Records of Scotland, based in Edinburgh, or at the Hawick Heritage Hub (Hawick), Burns Monuments Centre (Kilmarnock), Highland Archives (Inverness) or the Glasgow City Archives (Mitchell Library, Glasgow).
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby ChrisPaton1 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:06 pm

Panda53 wrote:Hi
Am trying to find out more information about John Martin born 29 August 1818 to James Martin circa 1787 Galloway, and Elizabeth circa 1788 Lanarkshire. He and brother Norval, 24 February 1824 Hackney London. went to the Caledonian Asylum (a school for children of invalided Scottish soldiers) in London during 1830s, He emmigrated to Australia and married Hannah Potter 13 January 1849 in Adelaide South Australia. Have descendants in Australia
James was invalided in Corfu and I think I have the correct document from findmypast.
Family Lore states John was born in Scotland however as Norval was born in London I have tried searching without luck on ancestry, findmypast and familysearch for additional children.
Application to Caledonian Asylum suggests there were at least 7 children dependent around 1827 (have a copy of both John and Norval's applications however there is not a place of birth for either of them).
I tried tracing Norval but after his marriage to Jane Glass in 1843 and two children nothing.
Just wondering if there are further places I could try to add some more depth to my great great grandfather.
Thank you
Amanda


Amanda, if you have James' regiment and battalion, you should be able to trace his movements from muster rolls and pay books which are held at the National Archives in Kew, England (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk). Knowing where he was posted throughout his career is the first thing to establish (his FindmyPast Chelsea or Kilmainham Pension record entry may already have a summary of that though). In terms of the children, they may be recorded in the army registers of baptisms. The indexes to these are included in the FindmyPast births civil database, or can be browsed individually, and for free, at FamilyRelatives, via http://www.familyrelatives.com/post_sea ... area_id=11. If you find possible entries, the original records can then be ordered from the English GRO at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /Login.asp where the registers are now held. Each cert will cost £9.25.

For more info on the father, you could try Ancestry's collection entitled Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900 – despite being labelled a Canadian resource, it is nothing of the sort, and I am trying to get Ancestry to rename the collection accordingly! These are the depot based description books of many British army regiments which provide details on soldiers who served across the world, and you may well find more on James there, including a physical description. If James was invalided, he may well have sought poor relief later in life, whether based in England (after 1834) or Scotland (after 1845) - if you know where he ended his days, it is worth checking the workhouse, poorhouse or poor relief records from the area to see if an application was made – Peter Higginbotham's Workhouses website at www.workhouses.org may help you to locate them (if they have survived). These can often be very detailed, and may provide more on their circumstances in later life.
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby ChrisPaton1 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:07 pm

hsjob wrote:Can you please recommend any resources for researching families on Islay in the 18th century? I am descended from the McAlpine family.


Many records for Islay, including 18th century parish records, have been transcribed and made available freely online at http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ... y/data.htm (the original entries are accessible on ScotlandsPeople). The site also provides lists of others researching Islay interests, as well as links to other sites with useful resources. Check out http://www.islayjura.com/genealogy/ also – and again, I would read up on the Statistical Accounts for the parishes on the island written in the 1790s and 1830s at http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/sas/sa ... &passback=, as they will provide names of estate owners and other leads that can help you to focus on further avenues for research.
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby Madgie » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:15 pm

Very grateful for your suggestions Chris. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Madgie x
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby ChrisPaton1 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:17 pm

Madgie wrote:Very grateful for your suggestions Chris. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Madgie x


No probs Madgie, good luck with your research! :)
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby Tigertabby » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:18 pm

Chris, thank you for your helpful reply about my query on Robert & Benjamin Laing. Looking at some of your other queries, they would seem to answer a question that I have on one of Benjamin's children, Elizabeth. He too was a Presbyterian Minister and took his congregation with him when he joined the Free Church. Elizabeth had a son called Charles who, although he knew about her, was bought up by another family and took their name. His father is named on his birth certificate which I have and one line in a family letter says "I always thought she should have established the legality of her marriage and that Pa (Charles) should have stuck to his father's name". Would I be safe to assume that this was because of her religion and is there any way of finding out anything about the marriage? From what I can find of the father, he married and had further children. If you can help, this would answer a very long standing query. Thank you.
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby ChrisPaton1 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:29 pm

Tigertabby wrote:Chris, thank you for your helpful reply about my query on Robert & Benjamin Laing. Looking at some of your other queries, they would seem to answer a question that I have on one of Benjamin's children, Elizabeth. He too was a Presbyterian Minister and took his congregation with him when he joined the Free Church. Elizabeth had a son called Charles who, although he knew about her, was bought up by another family and took their name. His father is named on his birth certificate which I have and one line in a family letter says "I always thought she should have established the legality of her marriage and that Pa (Charles) should have stuck to his father's name". Would I be safe to assume that this was because of her religion and is there any way of finding out anything about the marriage? From what I can find of the father, he married and had further children. If you can help, this would answer a very long standing query. Thank you.


Not so sure this is an issue about religion, it sounds like someone suggesting Elizabeth should have obtained some form of proof about the existence of her wedding, which may suggest it was irregular, or perhaps carried out immediately after the Disruption of 1843 in the Free Church, where there is a gap in the records of many congregations as they got themselves established. There may not be a record of it at all if so, but although civil registration started in 1855, there may still be some mention of the circumstances around the wedding or Charles' birth in church records, particularly the kirk session records. If after 1855, and Charles' father is named on the certificate both as father and jointly as one of the informants, it may be that Charles was possibly illegitimate, which may be a reason for passing him to another family to raise. On Benjamin, if he left the Church of Scotland to join the Free Church after 1843, he should still be mentioned in the Fasti for the first part of his career in the Church of Scotland.
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby Tigertabby » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:40 pm

ChrisPaton1 wrote:
Tigertabby wrote:Chris, thank you for your helpful reply about my query on Robert & Benjamin Laing. Looking at some of your other queries, they would seem to answer a question that I have on one of Benjamin's children, Elizabeth. He too was a Presbyterian Minister and took his congregation with him when he joined the Free Church. Elizabeth had a son called Charles who, although he knew about her, was bought up by another family and took their name. His father is named on his birth certificate which I have and one line in a family letter says "I always thought she should have established the legality of her marriage and that Pa (Charles) should have stuck to his father's name". Would I be safe to assume that this was because of her religion and is there any way of finding out anything about the marriage? From what I can find of the father, he married and had further children. If you can help, this would answer a very long standing query. Thank you.


Not so sure this is an issue about religion, it sounds like someone suggesting Elizabeth should have obtained some form of the existence of her wedding, which may suggest it was irregular, or perhaps carried out immediately after the Disruption of 1843 in the Free Church, where there is a gap in the records of many congregations as they got themselves established. There may not be a record of it at all if so, but although civil registration started in 1855, there may still be some mention of the circumstances around Charles' birth in church records, particularly the kirk session records. If after 1855, and Charles' father is named on the certificate both as father and jointly as one of the informants, it may be that Charles was possibly illegitimate, which may be a reason for passing him to another family to raise. On Benjamin, if he left the Church of Scotland to join the Free Church after 1843, he should still be mentioned in the Fasti for the first part of his career in the Church of Scotland.


That's really interesting, thank you. Charles was actually born in Newcastle and the address Elizabeth used on the birth certificate was that of the family who 'adopted' him. The father is named, Edwin Milnthorp and from what I have been able to find out, he was a Yorkshire man but played no part in Charles' life at all. Elizabeth was a Governess but she disappears after the 1861 census unt
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby Tigertabby » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:41 pm

ChrisPaton1 wrote:
Tigertabby wrote:Chris, thank you for your helpful reply about my query on Robert & Benjamin Laing. Looking at some of your other queries, they would seem to answer a question that I have on one of Benjamin's children, Elizabeth. He too was a Presbyterian Minister and took his congregation with him when he joined the Free Church. Elizabeth had a son called Charles who, although he knew about her, was bought up by another family and took their name. His father is named on his birth certificate which I have and one line in a family letter says "I always thought she should have established the legality of her marriage and that Pa (Charles) should have stuck to his father's name". Would I be safe to assume that this was because of her religion and is there any way of finding out anything about the marriage? From what I can find of the father, he married and had further children. If you can help, this would answer a very long standing query. Thank you.


Not so sure this is an issue about religion, it sounds like someone suggesting Elizabeth should have obtained some form of the existence of her wedding, which may suggest it was irregular, or perhaps carried out immediately after the Disruption of 1843 in the Free Church, where there is a gap in the records of many congregations as they got themselves established. There may not be a record of it at all if so, but although civil registration started in 1855, there may still be some mention of the circumstances around Charles' birth in church records, particularly the kirk session records. If after 1855, and Charles' father is named on the certificate both as father and jointly as one of the informants, it may be that Charles was possibly illegitimate, which may be a reason for passing him to another family to raise. On Benjamin, if he left the Church of Scotland to join the Free Church after 1843, he should still be mentioned in the Fasti for the first part of his career in the Church of Scotland.


That's really interesting, thank you. Charles was actually born in Newcastle and the address Elizabeth used on the birth certificate was that of the family who 'adopted' him. The father is named, Edwin Milnthorp and from what I have been able to find out, he was a Yorkshire man but played no part in Charles' life at all. Elizabeth was a Governess but she disappears after the 1861 census until her death. I do know however that she was abroad during that time. Thank you for helping me.
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Re: Chris Paton

Postby ChrisPaton1 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:42 pm

Tigertabby wrote:That's really interesting, thank you. Charles was actually born in Newcastle and the address Elizabeth used on the birth certificate was that of the family who 'adopted' him. The father is named, Edwin Milnthorp and from what I have been able to find out, he was a Yorkshire man but played no part in Charles' life at all. Elizabeth was a Governess but she disappears after the 1861 census until her death. I do know however that she was abroad during that time. Thank you for helping me.


No problems, best of luck with your research! :)
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