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Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:34 pm

lyngil wrote:Hello,

This picture is of my grandfather Ernest Dawson, born 25/7/1898. I know he was an apprentice at GWR 1912-1916, living in Worcester. I would like to try to identify the uniform he is wearing. I don't believe he served abroad during WW1, but I believe he had something to do with Prisoners of War.


Hi there,

The cap badge has the right shape for the Military Provost Staff Corps, who were responsible for military prisons. With your believe that he was involved with Prisoners of War this would make sense therefore.

The only other indicator to support this theory is that the soldier is wearing an 03 Patten belt, usually worn by Corps troops in WW1 - again confirming to your theory.

Hope this helps,

Julian and Rob
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:39 pm

DottyB wrote:Re: William Logan b. 1882 - d.1925
Is it possible to identify the regiment these soldiers were in. My grandfather (back row, right hand side), William Logan was born in Glasgow in 1882, he married Janet Munro Milne in 1911. At this time he was a commercial traveller still living in Glasgow. I do not know when he enlisted, but do have a photograph of him in uniform with his wife & son Samuel aged approx. 18 months- 2 years. (He was born in 1912)
William had 3 brothers : John Gilmour Logan (b.1884 d.1904); Samuel Logan (b 1886- d.1961 I believe); Robert Logan (b 1888 -d.1965) and 2 sisters Marion Muirhead Logan & Jessie Elizabeth Gilmour Logan.

I would be interested to know if either of the two brothers alive at the outbreak of war joined the armed forces.
Thank you.


Hi Dotty,

The star-shaped cap badge worn by the men in this picture is extremely common and features in several regiments. It would be possible to identify it but only if you are able to get a clearer look at the badge, which would then tell you the regiment.

We can say that this photo was most likely taken during the early part of the war, due to the absence of Divisional and Proficiency badges, and the style of the cap worn (a 1905 General Service Dress Cap with the stiffener taken out as was customary during wartime).

Thanks,

Julian and Rob
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:44 pm

detectivec wrote:This photo was sent home as a postcard from the front in WW1 dated 18th May 1916 from my great-grandfather Frank Connor (pictured 2nd row, on the left). He was a sergent in the 1st Devonshire reg. I know he was very musical on his marriage certificate in January 1914 he was listed as a drummer and we have several of his bugles. But I am interested to know what type of musical group is represented in the photo, as the men all seem very diverse? Would they all be from the same regiment?

army group 1.JPG


army group.JPG


Hi there,

What a humorous photo! We think the men here are staging a gang show or review, putting on a show for the entertainment of their comrades.

This supports your theory that your great-grandfather was musical and enjoyed performing.

The men in the pictures are all in fancy-dress, over their uniforms, and you can tell from their expressions that it's a light-hearted moment at the Front. The 'padre' to the right of your great-grandfather is not a real padre for example, as his cap badge and collar dogs are not Chaplains Department.

It's a lovely remnant from the War though and not something you see all that often.

Thanks,

Rob and Julian
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby Chadwi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:45 pm

Regarding your reply to Sally and to me about going to the National Archives for service records - they seem to refer people to Ancestry. Don't they have the records themselves?
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby JaneyH » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:47 pm

Many thanks, Julian and Rob.

Slowly I'm beginning to gather information about this photo - it's a real piece of detective work. Being a keen gardener I was frustrated that the trees or other greenery don't give any clues as to location.

I must go back and look at the 1911 again given his age by that point it's possible he could have left the Army by that point. I'm assuming that for the 1901 Census he may well have been in South Africa.

JaneyH


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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:52 pm

ceedee wrote:My Grandfather Charles Woods Martin was illegitimate he was born in 1913, to Sarah Martin. The family story was that his father died in the first world war and that his mother died of a broken heart. I have obtained her death certificate and she died of tb and cardiac failure (hence the broken heart story) This picture has no name on the back but I have attributed the surname of woods to it as my Grandfathers middle name was woods. My cousins and my uncle have a passing resemblence to this solider and I was wondering if you could advise if this is likely to be a first world war picture. My family are from Belfast. Any information would be fantastic


Hello,

We would suggest this is likely to be First World War or very soon after as he is wearing a 1914 Patten leather belt with the distinctive snake clasp.

He also has a riding crop and riding breeches, and his puttees are done up cavalry-style so he obviously works with horses. During the First World War lots of different regiments and Corps worked with horses.

Unfortunately, the absence of a cap badge and shoulder titles means we can't identify his specific regiment.

Thanks,

Rob and Julian
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:55 pm

Chadwi wrote:Regarding your reply to Sally and to me about going to the National Archives for service records - they seem to refer people to Ancestry. Don't they have the records themselves?


The original records are kept at the National Archives - however Ancestry do hold them digitally which makes them more accessible and might explain why people are being referred there.

So in answer they are held in both locations, though it's worth bearing mind Ancestry bear a charge for their services.
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby Chadwi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:00 pm

Many thanks, Julian and Robert, for your feedback. While you may not have been able to give me definitive answers (clearly the lack of clues in the photos didn't help!), every little snippet of information gets me closer and closer to the truth. Much appreciated.
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby Editor » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:05 pm

Thank you to Julian and Robert and to the National Army Museum for coming online today and casting their expert eyes on everybody's photographs.

Although the museum is currently closed for refurbishment, support from the Heritage Lottery Fund has enabled the Museum to go on the road during its closure period so if you missed out today you may be able to catch up with them at venues across the country.

A member of the First World War Centenary Partnership, the NAM will play an important role in realising a truly national commemoration over the next four years. To help achieve this, the Museum's programme will include over 60 events in 30 different locations, and be accessible to almost 250,000 visitors all over the UK.

For more information on the project, and activities and events taking place during the closure period visit, www.nam.ac.uk/whatson.
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby DottyB » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:16 pm

Thanks Julian & Rob.
I have attached a closer view of the cap badge & shoulder badge appears to read L&C or something similar - does this give any further clues?
Attachments
Closer view of cap badge.jpg
Closer view of cap badge.jpg (27.35 KiB) Viewed 4290 times
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