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Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby purplepumpkin » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:14 pm

These are photos of my great grandfather George Rorrison Gibson of Port Glasgow, Scotland seemingly in two different uniforms. Unfortunately no-one in the family knows which regiment he served in and I cannot tell from these photos - any help in identification of unit would be most appreciated
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George-Rorrison-Gibson-WWI-.jpg
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George-Rorrison-Gibson-WWI-solo.jpg
George-Rorrison-Gibson-WWI-solo.jpg (202.32 KiB) Viewed 4572 times
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby ceedee » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:27 am

My Grandfather Charles Woods Martin was illegitimate he was born in 1913, to Sarah Martin. The family story was that his father died in the first world war and that his mother died of a broken heart. I have obtained her death certificate and she died of tb and cardiac failure (hence the broken heart story) This picture has no name on the back but I have attributed the surname of woods to it as my Grandfathers middle name was woods. My cousins and my uncle have a passing resemblence to this solider and I was wondering if you could advise if this is likely to be a first world war picture. My family are from Belfast. Any information would be fantastic
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby Editor » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:40 am

Thank you to everyone who has posted a query up for Julian and Robert. It's not too late to add your WW1 picture query as they will be on until 2pm answering questions.

And of course a special thank you to the National Army Museum for agreeing to come on today and help our forum users with their queries.

Sarah
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:53 am

Editor wrote:Thank you to everyone who has posted a query up for Julian and Robert. It's not too late to add your WW1 picture query as they will be on until 2pm answering questions.

And of course a special thank you to the National Army Museum for agreeing to come on today and help our forum users with their queries.

Sarah


Hi Sarah,

Julian and Robert here, thanks for having us today. Some really fascinating posts have come through already, we look forward to answering them!

Thanks
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:07 pm

JaneyH wrote:Dear Julian and Robert,

This photograph fell out of the family Bible I inherited a few years back when my grandmother died.

FamilyBiblePic_compressed.jpg


It is printed directly onto thin paper, not a 'normal' old photo mounted onto card; there is no photographer's name and nothing written on the back to give any clues. The full text of the sign above the doorway reads: "soldiers' scripture reading and prayer room". I have posted this picture a while back on this forum and more recently on the Great War Forum, and the consensus is that it's probably Victorian rather than First World War. Given this, and what I know of military service among my ancestors, I would guess that it includes my great-grandmother's half-brother Charles (Charlie) John Barne. He was born in 1869 in Devon; I have details for him in the 1871 and 1881 Censuses but have found nothing further. To the best of my knowledge he saw service in the Boer War 1899-1902, and one of my late grandmother's prized possessions was the Queen Victoria chocolate tin that he had been sent when serving there, as were all soldiers one Christmas.

I can see that there are a range of different uniforms being worn; there is a padre/chaplain seated in the centre, and some of the men don't appear to be in the first flush of youth!

Separately, it has been suggested by another source that the photo was taken in India, and that the building is what was called a Harrington Prayer Room. These were apparently set up in all the major cantonments for soldiers to use. It is possible that Charlie Barne also served in India, although I have no knowledge of this. I have so far found no military records on Ancestry or the Forces War Records website that link to him.

In terms of other ancestors with military service in India, my great-grandfather's brother was in India with the 1/7th Battalion Hampshire Regiment in the Great War, but given he was born in 1892 and the 1911 Census says he was a postman in Bournemouth (aged 19) I'm pretty sure he only enlisted once war had started. He was discharged from the Army through sickness in 1919 and was awarded the SWB.

My great-grandfather served in the 13th Gloucestershire Regiment in WW1, in France and Belgium, but I've discounted this option. Besides, the Family Bible didn't come through his branch of the family.

Any pointers would be most appreciated. I can email a higher-resolution copy of the picture if this would help (please send an address).



Dear JaneyH,

We agree that this is most likely a very late 19th Century photography - we'd suggest it's probably in the 1880s (hence his absence from the 1891 census).

The reason we say 80s rather than looking further forward into the 90s is the presence of both 'Foreign Service' khaki and 'Red Coat' uniforms, because this is the period when the army changed from Red Coat to Khaki for those in foreign service.

The building behind does looking like a Harrington Prayer Room, and these were found throughout the empire, including India. There's nothing to prove it's in India unfortunately.

The group includes a mix of junior NCOs (Lance Corporals) and Private Soldiers of different regiments indicated by the different collar badges.

Hope this helps,

Julian and Robert
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:10 pm

graysj wrote:Hi, The attached photograph has been retained by the family for so long there is nobody live who knows why.
This seems to be taken in a hospital (make shift or otherwise) taken by H.J.Wenlock & Sons Birmingham. My wife's parents passed the photo down who were from Birmingham and thats all I know.

Can you identify anything from the shot?

Simon


Hi Simon,

Rob here - I'm pretty sure that's a WW1 hospital ward. We can't be certain if it's an actual hospital or makeshift one as many industrial and commercial premises were turned into makeshift hospitals during the War. It is probably in the UK, hence the link to Birmingham - you could try to look into hospital locations in the city during the War from local archives therefore.

We can tell you that the nurses are almost certainly Queen's Alexandra's Reserves or Territorial Force nurses, by their grey and scarlet capes.

The men are wearing a mixtures of pyjamas and hospital blues - and one man is wearing a uniform.

Thanks,

Rob
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:14 pm

graysj wrote:Hi,
This Regiment photograph seems to be in France showing the photographer as P. Delebarre 84,Rue d'Arras AIRE-SUR-LA-LYS (PAS-DE-CALAIS).

My wife's parents passed the photo down who were from Birmingham and that's all I know.

Can you identify anything from the shot? Maybe the regiment etc . I can send another copy of photo zooming in if it would help?

Simon


Hi Simon,

The first place to start with this one is that it's not actually one single regiment - it's a collection of officers from different regiments (possibly a Brigade).

There's a Chaplain at the front, and the rest are officers.

One thought we have is that it was taken outside a Brigade HQ, as the men are all wearing a mixture of field and office uniforms. The Brigade HQs changed regularly so even though you know the address it would be extremely difficult to identify this particular Brigade.

Hopefully that helps a little at least.

Thanks,

Julian and Rob
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:22 pm

Chadwi wrote:I've got terribly stuck trying to find out about my grandfather's role in the Great War, and it would be really terrific if you can give me a few pointers. Here are a couple of photographs, one in uniform and another with his 'unit'.
Wilson, Ernest 01.jpg

Wilson, Ernest 03 (1st left, front row)a.jpg


I've searched all manner of records and indexes and haven't found a thing, not helped by having the pretty common surname of Wilson. I've been told he joined the Post Office Rifles, and I can't understand why as I'm not aware of any connection to the Post Office; fyi he lived and worked in Woolwich. (I believe at some point the Rifles were amalgamated with the London Regiment). I've also been told that he was gassed during the war.

Would love to know: what is the chance of me finding a medal card of service record and where to look?; do the photos look like the Post Office Riles?; how can I find out where he might of served? At the moment I have no knowledge of his part in the war, so any tips would be a bonus.



Hi there,

This one is a little complex - the top picture doesn't help us to identify your grandfather's role or regiment as there are no badges visible and he is wearing a standard general service uniform.

However the larger photograph does feature several cap badges. Confusingly, several city and county of London Battalions had similar cap badges, but if your family history indicates the Post Office Rifles then this badge conforms to the 8th City of London Battalion (The Post Office Rifles), and would tend to support this story.

You're right that the Post Office Rifles was part of the London Regiment too.

In terms of why he would be fighting with this Post Office Rifles, originally 'Pals' regiments such as these that were formed of men united by common work / interests, by 1917 most had been disbanded. A few retained in name, but no longer kept their original affiliations, so he wouldn't have had to have been involved with the Post Office to join them.

If you're keen to find out where he serves we'd suggest checking National Archives for his service record / medal card. Do bear in mind that many of these were damaged or destroyed during the Second World War if you have no luck.

Thanks,

Rob and Julian
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby National Army Museum » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:26 pm

meekhcs wrote:We think the attached photograph is of our great uncle, Tom Victor Jopling (1892-1918), dated 1 April 1912. General consensus is that the uniform is that of the RHA. My problem is that, as far as we were aware, Tom Victor Jopling and his brothers were all Merchant Navy men. Tom died 3 September 1918 in the Bristol Channel serving aboard an American merchant navy vessel.
I have been unable to find any records relating to Tom and army service. I would be grateful to receive any ideas you may have.
Thank you
Sally


Hi Sally,

We can say that this is not the image of a sailor, but of a soldier, suggesting your Great Uncle did fight with the Army at some time.

The soldier's uniform is that of a light cavalryman or horse artillery soldier, so it could indeed be RHA. Without a cap badge or other insignia it's difficult to identify. If his service record has survived it will confirm the regiment though.

The National Archives is the best place to look for service records, though you may have already checked of course.

We do hope this helps a little,

Julian and Rob
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Re: Julian Farrance & Robert Fleming (National Army Museum)

Postby meekhcs » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:30 pm

Thank you very much for your reply re Tom Victor Jopling
Sally
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