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Anthony Adolph (brick walls)

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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:06 pm

ksouthall wrote:Hello Anthony,

I have a couple of ancestors who I can't trace baptism records for, as follows:-

Silas Gower - born around 1795 in the Hailsham area of East Sussex

John Shilfox - he was a tailor in Oxford. He served on Oxford council until 1735 and had married Mary Herne at St Peter le Bailey, Oxford, on 4 August 1679.

I have tried a variety of sources to try and trace their baptisms/christenings. Could you give me any suggestions of other sources available? Is it possible that they were baptised/christened under different names or possibly even abroad?

Thanks for your time,

Katherine


Dear Katherine,
Giving advice here really depends on knowing what sources you have tried, so if you see this during the live session maybe you could reply and let me know.
A good first-stop is www.familysearch.org, and here I see that a Silas Gower married Sophia Pennells in 1816 at Herstmonceux (which is near Hailsham) in 1816, but there's no sign of a baptism in that same index. It would be worth checking the original marriage entry in the East Sussex Record Office, to see where Silas was ‘of’ at the time, and then to search the baptisms yourself, as no index can be relied upon entirely. Failing that you could try the Sussex Baptismal Index (http://www.sfhg.org.uk/baptisms.html) or the Sussex Collection (http://www.ihgs.ac.uk/library/sussex_collection.html). This includes many settlement certificates (which are also in the record office), which may tell you where Silas came from. If it was he who married in 1816, then this was straight after the Napoleonic War had ended, so maybe he was a demobbed solider.

John Shilfox of Oxford sounds like an interesting character. It's an unusual surname so if you are using indexes to try to find him it may be worth considering other possible spellings - Shellfax, for instance. maybe if you If he married in 1679 he may have been born under the Commonwealth, which decreases the likelihood of finding a baptism at all. If you’ve searched all the Oxford baptisms very thoroughly, maybe you should try an alternative way of proving his origins, by seeking mention of him in other Shilfox wills, for instance.
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:15 pm

ksouthall wrote:Hello Anthony,

I have a couple of ancestors who I can't trace baptism records for, as follows:-

Silas Gower - born around 1795 in the Hailsham area of East Sussex

John Shilfox - he was a tailor in Oxford. He served on Oxford council until 1735 and had married Mary Herne at St Peter le Bailey, Oxford, on 4 August 1679.

I have tried a variety of sources to try and trace their baptisms/christenings. Could you give me any suggestions of other sources available? Is it possible that they were baptised/christened under different names or possibly even abroad?

Thanks for your time,

Katherine




Dear Katherine,
Giving advice here really depends on knowing what sources you have tried, so if you see this during the live session maybe you could reply and let me know.
A good first-stop is http://www.familysearch.org, and here I see that a Silas Gower married Sophia Pennells in 1816 at Herstmonceux (which is near Hailsham) in 1816, but there's no sign of a baptism in that same index. It would be worth checking the original marriage entry in the East Sussex Record Office, to see where Silas was ‘of’ at the time, and then to search the baptisms yourself, as no index can be relied upon entirely. Failing that you could try the Sussex Baptismal Index (http://www.sfhg.org.uk/baptisms.html) or the Sussex Collection (http://www.ihgs.ac.uk/library/sussex_collection.html). This includes many settlement certificates (which are also in the record office), which may tell you where Silas came from. If it was he who married in 1816, then this was straight after the Napoleonic War had ended, so maybe he was a demobbed solider.

John Shilfox of Oxford sounds like an interesting character. It's an unusual surname so if you are using indexes to try to find him it may be worth considering other possible spellings - Shellfax, for instance.
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:20 pm

Millst wrote:Hello Anthony

I have been trying for years to trace my 3 x great grandmother, Ann, who married a British soldier garrisoned in Malta in 1808 aged 16. There are no details of her parents apart from name of father but it does not indicate whether the father was alive, in the army or what.

There are vague family stories that she came from a well known army family but I cannot find a connection and if this is true it must be several generations back from her (say a second or third cousin) but her marriage to a Sergeant would not suggest that her father had a good position.

Because of her age, 16, when she married, I imagine she may have been a daughter of a soldier serving in Malta at the time and that is the avenue I have been following.

Although I have found out where her husband originated from Army in Reserve 1803 records on FindMyPast, army records have not so far helped me with her family.

The only other clue I have is that her mother was living with her at the time of the 1851 census (but not the 1841 census) and gave her birth place as Ireland. Not much to go on here as I don't even know the mother's maiden name. Ann's first husband died in 1820 and she married again once or possibly twice.

My question is, what would you suggest I do next and is there anything you think I may have missed?

With thanks



It’s certainly an advantage that you know Ann’s father’s name – you don’t say here what it was, so could you let us know? Failing all else, you could find out what regiments were stationed in Malta in 1806 and then use the musters of those regiments to try to pick up the father. Aside from that you can use church register indexes such as www.familysearch.org to try to pick up her baptism, and there are also the regimental birth indexes, which start in 1761, which are indexed on www.genesreunited.com. The Irish connection is suggestive of an army one, and it’s possible that the father was stationed in Ireland, where he met and married his wife, and was then posted to Malta – so Ann may have been born in Ireland. An excellent site for Maltese genealogy, by the way, is http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebi ... 0sites.htm
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:22 pm

bobmacqueen wrote:Hello Anthony
I have a 3 times great grandfather Robert MacQueen born around 1757 and living in London in 1792 when he married a Jane Naude on 12 May at St Martins in the Fields.

I cannot find any reference to a Jane Naude at all, no birth death or anything. The name is unusual and there does not appear to be any other Naudes around at that time. Could she be from France? Jane is an unusual name in countries other than Britain.

She must have died before 1817 as he remarried in that year.

Robert is describe as a Gentleman and I do not know what he did, although he did leave two houses in his will.

Thank you

Bob


Dear Bob,
That part of London was a very dynamic one at the time and Jane really could have come from anywhere – as you say, the surname has more foreign connotations than English ones (though I note that a Hannah Naude’s birth in 1792 was entered into the registers of the Particular Baptist’s Salendine Nook Meeting House in Quarmby-Cum-Lindley, Yorkshire, with parents James and Sarah – maybe James was related to James. But what did the original marriage register say about Jane? Was she ‘of this parish’ when she married, or from elsewhere? Was the marriage by license, and if so the related allegation and bond may shed some light on her family connections. Were any other Naudes married in St Martin in the Fields about that time, or do they appear maybe just as witnesses? Were any other Naudes listed in the rate books of St Martin in the Fields about that time? It’s a shame Robert did not mention any Naude relatives in his will, but searches in the London will indexes may produce her father or brothers. You simply need to cast about in this way for clues, to try to grasp what her family connections may have been
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:28 pm

bobmacqueen wrote:Hello Anthony
I have a 3 times great grandfather Robert MacQueen born around 1757 and living in London in 1792 when he married a Jane Naude on 12 May at St Martins in the Fields.

I cannot find any reference to a Jane Naude at all, no birth death or anything. The name is unusual and there does not appear to be any other Naudes around at that time. Could she be from France? Jane is an unusual name in countries other than Britain.

She must have died before 1817 as he remarried in that year.

Robert is describe as a Gentleman and I do not know what he did, although he did leave two houses in his will.

Thank you

Bob


Dear Bob,
That part of London was a very dynamic one at the time and Jane really could have come from anywhere – as you say, the surname has more foreign connotations than English ones (though I note that a Hannah Naude’s birth in 1792 was entered into the registers of the Particular Baptist’s Salendine Nook Meeting House in Quarmby-Cum-Lindley, Yorkshire, with parents James and Sarah – maybe James was related to James. But what did the original marriage register say about Jane? Was she ‘of this parish’ when she married, or from elsewhere? Was the marriage by license, and if so the related allegation and bond may shed some light on her family connections. Were any other Naudes married in St Martin in the Fields about that time, or do they appear maybe just as witnesses? Were any other Naudes listed in the rate books of St Martin in the Fields about that time? It’s a shame Robert did not mention any Naude relatives in his will, but searches in the London will indexes may produce her father or brothers. You simply need to cast about in this way for clues, to try to grasp what her family connections may have been
Anthony Adolph
 
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:29 pm

callbrian wrote:Hello Anthony,
I have a puzzle to solve regarding Michael Tynan 1842-1896 according to his army records, downloaded from findmypast, married Sarah L Johnson 1858-1943 in Gravesend 08 May 1878.
I have trawled through various websites without finding the marriage. Have you any suggestions?
Regards
Brian


It depends what the various websites were: when asking questions it’s always a good idea to specify what you have done already. The main General Registration indexes 1837-2005 are indeed on various websites, such as www.genesreunited.com and www.findmypast.com, covering marriages in England and Wales, but there are other indexes the one you should try are the Army Marriages, as these cover soldiers (Obviously) and are not limited geographically. As a soldier Michael may have married wherever he was posted. His army papers should tell you where he was in 1878 - Ireland or Scotland, perhaps.
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:31 pm

slyon68 wrote:Where is the best place to find a photo of a Civil War soldier, and did they take a photo of every single soldier in the War? Having a hard time finding one of my GGG Grandfather, John Stewart Cromwell, a Mississippi Sharpshooter, who was killed in action, 1864, near New Hope, Georgia and buried in a mass grave. Thanks for any advice.
-Shelia



As a British genealogist I’m familiar with using records of American civil war soldiers, of course, but wouldn’t pretend to know the records to that level of detail, and I don’t happen to know the answer to this question. However, given the circumstances – he was buried in a mass grave and there was a war on – and the fact that these were still the early days of photography – I would not take it as a given that there ever was a photograph of such a person. We certainly didn’t keep photographic records of British soldiers at the time. However, if you feel there's a chance then please don't let me put you off keeping on looking: one possible avenue would be to try tracing other descendants of this man, to see if they might have a picture of him.
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:36 pm

Kait wrote:On the 1891 my grandmother (b 1877 shown as age 13) and her older brother (b 1874 shown as aged 16) both have "Cyclist" in the "Profession or Occupation" column. I haven't come across this anywhere else. Is it a recognised entry? is it because cycling is quite new and they want to say they can do it? Is it like people now putting "Jedi" on the census form?
By 1901 she is a "Nurse domestic" and he is an iron monger



I’ve seen census forms every working day for the last quarter century and don’t remember seeing that before. Like those people putting ‘Jedi’ on modern censuses - they were perhaps being a little mischievous, but if so you’d expect the enumerator to have crossed these answers out. Otherwise, maybe they were fact errand girls/boys, employed to deliver things by bicycle. It’s a curious little matter!
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby callbrian » Fri May 30, 2014 12:48 pm

Thanks Anthony,
I had tried Ancestry, Find my past, Freebmd and the Genealogist sites. As I said the army records show Gravesend as the marriage place, which I assumed was Kent.
regards
Brian
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Re: Anthony Adolph

Postby Anthony Adolph » Fri May 30, 2014 12:59 pm

callbrian wrote:Thanks Anthony,
I had tried Ancestry, Find my past, Freebmd and the Genealogist sites. As I said the army records show Gravesend as the marriage place, which I assumed was Kent.
regards
Brian


Thank you for setting me straight there. In first reading I missed you saying that the marriage was in Gravesend. I'd definitely recommend the army chaplain’s returns for marriages (1796-1880) which are on FindMypast (etc). Also, as Gravesend was a major place of disembarkation for naval ships, it may also be worth considering the related Marriages at Sea. Once in a while people who had married at sea put down the place where they had come ashore as their place of marriage
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