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Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

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Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby Singleton1922 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:54 pm

I would love for these 2 photos to be of the same person but I’m not at all sure. I would date the first as the late 1870s and the second around 1895. If I’m correct this would be Maria Greenfield, nee Doe. I don’t have the original photos and these are the best copies I have. I think I can see some similarities between the eyebrows and ears though the eyes could be a different colour.
I would appreciate any opinions on this,
Thank you, Sandra

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Re: Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby Singleton1922 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:08 pm

Just to clarify the position- the photos uploaded in the wrong order and the first is the studio portrait of the young woman and the second is the woman with her family.


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Re: Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby JMcK » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:05 am

My first impression - I don’t like the two noses. The younger woman’s looks more turned up, BUT. When you look at the oldest daughter she looks a lot like the younger woman.

(I don’t give much attention to eye colour, I’ve seen quite a lot of variation between early photographs)
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Re: Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby Singleton1922 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:29 am

Thank you for your reply.
I’m fairly convinced the mother is Maria though there should be only 2 daughters in the photo according to my research. However Maria was brought up by her grandparents so I’m assuming she was closer than usual to her aunts and uncles and so one of the children could be a cousin. The photo of the younger woman intrigues me as it was taken in Derby whereas the family lived near the east coast of Lincolnshire.


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Re: Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:08 pm

Are we supposed to be comparing the woman in the studio portrait to the mother? Because they don't look at all alike to me. The mother has a rounder face and if anything she's older than the mother! Then again, all this is fairly subjective....
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Re: Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby Singleton1922 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:00 am

Thanks for your comments Adrian. It’s always difficult to judge the age of the subject accurately. I was working on the assumption that a studio photo would be to celebrate an important milestone in her life such as 21st birthday, wedding etc.


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Re: Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby elaineinsomerset » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:38 pm

Hi, not sure if this is still an active enquiry, but I just joined. I have been experimenting with face recognition technology to answer this sort of question and the result I get for your photos is attached. The technology is not designed to be used with old photos, but seems to do quite well.
I your case I picked the older women as the photo to compare with all the others (so she gets 100% as it is comparing her photo with herself). From previous trials I have done, I think you need at least 80% for it to be a close relative such as mother and child or sibling and well over 90% for it to be the same person. The result seems to be that the woman is very likely to be the mother of all those children, but is not likely to be the same person as the young woman in the other photo.
Therefore I would concur with the other respondee who thinks they are not sufficiently alike to be the same person.
The technology I used is Betaface, which is free to use. I have written a blog about hos to do this this on my website Timepix, but as I am new the forum prevents me posting links to either that or to Betaface.
Thank you for the interesting case, the more I use this technology the more I am convinced it can be helpful
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Re: Doe/Greenfield family of Lincolnshire

Postby Singleton1922 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:17 pm

Thank you Elaine. I will certainly check your blog and the beta face too. It’s really interesting that all 3 girls have very similar scores as I can find evidence of only 2 born to Maria before the 2 boys. I’m fairly confident they are Charlie and George as Maria had only 2 sons and they were born around 18 months apart. I was wondering if the earlier photo was Maria’s mother but based on the scores that seems unlikely. Back to the drawing board I think!


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