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Several Post-1837 Problems

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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:17 am

#5 - I've returned to this family mystery after giving my brain a rest for a few days. ;) It turns out that JPN is in the 1841 census (as "John Nunn"). He's listed a "music seller" at the Birmingham Society of Artists on New Street. During the 1840s, JPN was a piano-forte tuner and repairer.

A gallery and set of offices for the Birmingham Society of Arts was built behind a neo-classical portico in New Street. Also living on New Street in 1841 to 1851 was Thomas & Eleanor Mountfort.

Interestingly, Eleanor isn't with Thomas and family in the 1841 census. Perhaps she was away on census night. (I note that one of their sons was Ernest Chesmer Mountfort -- Chesmer was her father's original surname).

So maybe JPN and the Mountforts became good friends, due to living on New Street for a while ??

On a side note, I found an interesting personal parallel in the Mountfort history. One of TM's sons by his first marriage (Benjamin) was a well-known architect who emigrated to NZ in 1850. He was one of the "Canterbury Pilgrims". My 'other half' has ancestors who sailed on one of the First Four Ships in 1850, and were also "Canterbury Pilgrims". :D
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:20 am

If that's the right John Nunn, as it's that only one in the Birmingham area in 1841, then that's probably the connection - Just friends, not family.

Going back to Jacob Joseph, the only references to him in St Anne, other than a probate record, were several 'Land Tax Records' from 1825-28 where he was the tenant of Richard West, proprietor. If that's the right Jacob Joseph, as that's not much to go on.

I think the Nunn-Mountfort connection is probably explained now, but still a bit strange that John's younger brother would use the name for his son. Maybe Robert Reece Nunn spent some time in Birmingham before he moved to London, or even after.
There are a few possibilities for R R Nunn on the 1841 census, but I can't really confirm any of them at the moment. If it doesn't give his birth county or an accurate age or list a profession that matches what he did in later years, then it is hard to find a match.
My father thought of re-introducing the Mountfort name to the family when I was born, so given it's not a 'family name' as such, it was probably best that he didn’t, plus it's saved my name from being a lot longer!

Thanks again for all your help, it has proved most invaluable.

Also, thanks for pointing me towards the London Gazette. Even though R R Nunn had bankruptcy issues, at least his grandson Bertrand Stanley Carter, son of Florence, got more honourable mentions for his WW1 exploits.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:12 pm

It could be that Thomas Mountford met RRN through his brother JPN, and helped give him a "leg up". with his career. After all, RRN is a "coal merchant" early on, but then progresses to auctioneer, estate agent, accountant, picture dealer, and artists' colourman. So if TM "helped" RRN or provided him with useful London contacts, that may explain why his son has the middle name of "Mountfort".

Could this be RRN in St Pancras in 1841? Age is slightly off, but the chap's occupation is "Ind" and birthplace is "not born in county". Looks like Ancestry have mis-transcribed the name as "Minn", but the image looks more like "Nunn".

Name: Robert Minn
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: High Street
Registration district: St Pancras
Sub-registration district: Camden Town
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Book: 2
Folio: 39
Page Number: 8
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:39 pm

I don’t know where R R Nunn was living in 1841, though I think there can only be 3 reasonable possibilities. He could have still been in Somerset, but not living with his parents and brother Joshua. He could have been with oldest brother John Peter in Birmingham, but the only John Nunn in Warwickshire, in the correct age range, had no other family staying with him. That leaves London/Middlesex where he was in 1851, and there are multiple possibilities.

The ‘Minn’ you mentioned definitely looks more like a capital ‘N’ at the start.
These are a few of the incorrect spellings or transcriptions I’ve encountered so far for the name Nunn - Munn (grandparents ‘official’ marriage record 1943), Rinn (John Peter and Mary on 1851 census), Wenn (Robert Henry, son of Joshua, plus his wife and daughter, on 1871 census), all found on Ancestry.

If a record of RJMN Sr's Christening showed the God-parents as either Thomas or Eleanor Mountfort, or both, that would seem reasonable enough for the origin of the middle name. But the CofE records don't show that detail.

Another thing I have considered, was if Juliana Joseph pronounced her name like Julie-Anna rather than Julie-Arna , then that might sound a bit like Hannah for the 1841 census, and she was living with her cousin Eliza then too, just like in 1851. But that’s just a possibility, which can’t be proven either way at the moment.
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