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Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

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Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby janice52 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:43 pm

A friend has asked me to find out everything I can about Pte Henry Johnson of the Machine Gun Corps (119732) in WW1. He has the bible which was presented to him by the National Bible Society of Scotland and would like to know if he is related to him or to find those that are.
So far all I have been able to find is his medal card. His records were probably destroyed in WW2.
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby ciderdrinker » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:39 am

Hello
His medal card is on Ancestry and gives his Rank and his award of Victory and British medals .
so he probably joined up latter in the War.
I can't see a service record and his name is very common .There are 8 or 9 service records for a Henry Johnson in the regiment that have survived but none with the same number.Most are from Lancashire.
Sorry

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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby AntonyM » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:02 am

The reference on the medal card (K/1/102 B25 p4033) points to a supplementary medal roll (WO 329/852) for the Norfolk Regiment where he is also listed under the service number 72695 so that may give you an avenue for further research.
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:23 am

AntonyM wrote:The reference on the medal card (K/1/102 B25 p4033) points to a supplementary medal roll (WO 329/852) for the Norfolk Regiment ...

Oh thank you Antony. I was trying to find his Medal Roll using the surname and number from the Medal Index Card - and failing dismally on an indexed search. I was even trying to browse the Medal Rolls in case there had been an indexing problem, which meant that I had to try to remember how to access the Rolls from the Index Cards (which I did at Kew because the Rolls weren't yet on-line). But it just wasn't working - I now realise this was because I was searching TNA's Discovery catalogue on the wrong regiment...

Trying to explain what the MGC / Norfolk business means...
1. Because the Medal Roll is from the Norfolks, this means that his last regiment was the Norfolks - or he was still in the Norfolks when campaign medals were being issued - which can be later than you might imagine.
2. Because the Norfolks aren't on his Medal Index Card that means he wasn't in that regiment in a theatre of war - the MIC only mentions the MGC, so he was only in a theatre of war in the MGC.

So he served in the MGC in a theatre of war, and it's probable, then, but not certain, that he transferred into the Norfolks after 11/11/18.

Another option would be that he served in the MGC in a theatre of war, got sent back to the UK before 11/11/18, never went abroad again but transferred into the Norfolks after that return to the UK. There may be other possibilities....
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby janice52 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:11 pm

Thank you everyone.
I have now found the medal roll on Ancestry - still no luck with a service record though. I know this could have been destroyed but is it possible that, if his service continued, his records haven't been released yet?
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:38 pm

janice52 wrote:... is it possible that, if his service continued, his records haven't been released yet?

Perfectly possible - in fact, if he served after some point in 1920, then his records should remain with the MoD. The odds are, of course, that he didn't serve after 1920 and that the records were burnt, but there's no particular logic to that argument - it's just what the odds are.

As an aside, I do wonder how many sets of records that we assume to have been burnt, are in fact still with the MoD because the chap carried on as a Regular soldier - or rejoined, even.
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby ianbee » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:16 pm

janice52 wrote:would like to know if he is related to him or to find those that are.

Don't know whether it will help, but there is an AVL for him (well, two probably)
1918 Norfolk S.W.
Parish - Fincham
Johnson Henry
119732 Pte., 3 Co., M.G.C.
Village

Is there a little bit of extra info in there?
Seems to be listed in Spring 1919, but no details other than he was living in Village.
Not listed in the Fincham AVL in 1920?

Edit - Forget the rest!
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby janice52 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:29 am

Thank you. I had not thought to look at the Absent Voters List. Fincham is quite local - will investigate further.
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby ianbee » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:59 am

Going to have to stop messing about with my posts!
ianbee wrote:May not be connected, but mention it in case
CWGC has a John Johnson, R/16830, 13th Bn. King's Royal Rifle Corps, died 13 July 1916, son of Mrs. Mary Jane Lock, of Swan Lane, Fincham, King's Lynn.
Possibly in 1911 he is John Thomas Johnson, born Wilton, living in Feltham, son of Mary Jane (who may have married Mr Lock later the same year?). Age is out (18)
She has written in a son, Henry Ephraim, then he has been crossed out, he must have been elsewhere on the night.
Though we have no mention of the name Ephraim for Henry in the MGC.


He still may not be connected, but there is Henry Johnson (no Ephraim), born Crimpleson? Norfolk, living Shingham near Swaffham, attested Norfolk Regiment, 11 Jan 1915. Reg no. 17930
Next of kin Jane Lock (mother), living Swaffham.
Says that he was discharged 9 August 1915, "Having made a misstatement as to age on attestation"

But might he have rejoined the army later? Would there then be any reference to that earlier service in the records? Like Norfolk/17930 being on a medal roll/card? Adrian might know perhaps.
John Johnson is on the Fincham Roll of Honour.
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Re: Pte Henry Johnson Machine Gun Corps 119732

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:53 am

Normally, when someone joined the Army, the recruiter asked them if they had had any previous service.

If the answer was yes, and both the previous service and the new were in the Regulars, then my impression is that the 2 sets of documents were supposed to be brought together. And I'm fairly certain that I've seen this. But memory is fallible so I'm not totally sure. Maybe it only happened if it was the same regiment???

Note that when I say "rejoined" I do mean 2 sets of service, not still being in the Reserve from the first lot and called back to the Colours.

But - let's be practical - how does the Army get to join up the 2 sets of papers? Only if the soldier, on his second attestation, admits to the previous service. If he doesn't, then it seems highly unlikely to me that the 2 sets of papers will be joined up. Come to that, when conscription comes in, would the recruiter even bother asking the question about previous service?

Sent from my MotoG3 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
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