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Were there other children?

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Re: Were there other children?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:16 am

Hah - I knew I'd have to disappoint you some day, Sylvia. Sorry but I have no idea about agreed domestic arrangements in the British armed forces. I don't even know where I'd look for a reference....

:-(

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Re: Were there other children?

Postby JMcK » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:48 am

several of those Indian births belong to Henry Robert and Charlotte Mary FROUD

Re Dorothy Elizabeth - whose parents are not listed in the index

in 1939 there is a family in Ramsgate

Charlotte M. B 24 April 1883. Widow
Dorothy E., later Kitchen b 11 June 1920
Ernest A 30 May 1922
One redacted entry

Looking for Ernest there is a birth in Malta in 1922 of Ernest A. H.

Henry Robert died 1934, probate to his widow Charlotte Mary
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby nuttree » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:32 am

So are you thinking RobertHa was Lilias's child after all? I don't think Dorethy ELizabeth is one of their family as she appears on the 1939 register with a Widow Charlotte FROUD who looks like her mother they are in Ramsgate in Kent.
It is interesting that the form for Dorothy is different for that of Robertha none of the odd Slave references but neither have father's first name or any mention of a mother. So odd
Many thanks for your information

whoops I hadn't turned the page over and see you have already found Dorothy isn't one of Joseph and Lilias's children So was Robertha Lilias ' or not? Is there any way to find out if Lilias went to India with Joseph that would be a starting point
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:55 am

Re Robertha's entry in "British India Office Births & Baptisms" and the line that reads:

Slave owner slave of 005138429_00227 same as 005138429_00226

I don't know but I would strongly suspect that this is absolutely nothing to do with genealogy and some internal pointer from the FMP system linking records that has somehow been made visible. It may be referring to duplicate records that are meant to be suppressed. Ignore it.
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby nuttree » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:26 am

I really hope you are right he is something of a hero in his family it would be awful to blot his brave copy book.
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby MaureenE » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:03 pm

The deployments of the 2nd Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers, from the archived website regiments.org.
1919.11 Black Sea
1921.11 India: Barrackpore
1923 Sialkot
1925 Peshawar
1927 Ferozepore
1931 China: Shanghai
1932.04 England: Catterick
https://web.archive.org/web/20080112143 ... /021-2.htm

The birth in Malta is probably unrelated as it doesn't fit in with the above information. The information on Regiments.org is usually accurate, however, there could always be some discrepancies.

Do you know when Joseph joined the Army? Was he in the Army when he married Lilias in June 1909, or did he join during WW1? Even if he joined during WW1, with that prior service, he would probably have been looked on favourably to take his wife and family with him to India. Do you have any evidence that's wife remained behind in the UK, and did not travel to India with him? I think it very unlikely that in the 1920s he would have a relationship with an Indian, and I am a bit unclear why you think the child born in India has a different mother. I agree with the comments others have made that the references to slave owner should be ignored. This reference should not be in the transcript.

Joseph's service file would probably still be with the Ministry of Defence, but I believe there are some restrictions as to who can apply for it. However, if you were able to obtain a copy, there would probably be some details about the children he was claiming as dependents.

Cheers
Maureen
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby nuttree » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:51 pm

The only thing that bothered in regard to Robertha was that odd slave line (pointed out in the Postby JMcK » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:09 pm) and the fact no mother was listed this along with the fact we know of two daughters born 1909 and 1911 respectively then nothing until Robertha in 1925 it seems a long spell with out children. Joseph married in 1909 and was a corporal in the RSF then so must have joined a while before 1909 but as he served after 1920 his records are not yet generally available and he is not my direct line.
How long roughly would he have served to make corporal?
Last edited by nuttree on Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:51 pm

Re the Slave message - please remember that slavery has been illegal in the British Empire for decades at this point. It is possible that someone, somewhere at this point was indeed involved in incredibly illegal control of people amounting to slavery, and was under investigation for it. But there is zero chance that the pages of a child's baptism should be used to record such an investigation. Police do have their own notebooks - put this from your mind.


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Re: Were there other children?

Postby nuttree » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:03 pm

Thanks Adrian its gone . Thank you Maureen for that useful list my fellow researcher into this family has a post card dated 1920 from Joseph from Constantinople
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby MaureenE » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:11 am

Here is an archived link to the regimental history from 1919

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... 201959.doc
''The History of The Royal Scots Fusiliers 1919—I959'' by Colonel JC Kemp.
Note, this is available to download as a Word Document (which depending on your browser you may find in your downloads folder - it then needs to be opened). Chapter 1 gives an outline of the 2nd Battalion in India 1920-1930,

The 2nd Battalion seems to have been in India from late 1920.

Cheers
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