Moderator Control Panel ]

Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Having trouble tracking down a wartime ancestor? Share your queries – and help fellow researchers – here

Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby mbford222 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:47 pm

Happy New Year ,
I am trying to find out more about James Phillips who married Charity Chalk in South Stoneham, Hampshire in 1813. One of the witnesses to the marriage is a Capt D.S. possibly Craig? of the 4th Regt. Why would he be a witness, unless James was a soldier? However, James is listed as an Ag Lab (1841,1851) or General dealer (1861) on the census.
Firstly, am I reading the name correctly as Craig? I am not finding much about the 4th regiment on Google.
Any thoughts would be welcome
Thank you,
Margaret in Ottawa at -28 degrees today!!
Attachments
Phillips & Chalk m.30 Dec 1813.jpg
Phillips & Chalk m.30 Dec 1813.jpg (357.84 KiB) Viewed 809 times
mbford222
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:27 pm

Clearly his descendants must be doctors because I can't read his signature...

However, the 1821 Army List ( see https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dgUcAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false ) does have a Captain David S Craig, on half-pay since August 1820 in the Royal York Rangers. Half pay means that he is not on active service with any unit but living at home, waiting and hoping for an assignment - or hoping not to get one!

The 4th Foot is mentioned on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Own_Royal_Regiment_(Lancaster) In 1813 it would have been in the thick of the Peninsular War so if he is in the 4th, then he's on leave or on depot duty.

I have a distinct feeling that in 1821 the RYR (which had effectively been a penal unit at one time according to RootsChat) was really only in existence to hold officers on half-pay - I can't find it as an active unit in the list.

Which doesn't really answer your question of why he's there. But if he is on leave or something, then he might be the witness for any number of reasons - local land-owner, suitably impressive person...
Adrian
AdrianB38
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:07 pm

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby ianbee » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:42 pm

A miniature of the marriage witness
http://www.kingsownmuseum.com/ko2688-01.htm

Auction of a Waterloo Medal?
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auct ... 5800cf12f5
But Captain Craig did not serve at Waterloo. Only Adrian can explain that.

The first James/Charity Phillips baptism indexed at Botley is in 1815. What was his occupation on that?
If James died in Sep qtr 1864, age on death was 85, putting his birth around 1779 and age on marriage about 34.
Charity also died 1864 and was 69.
ianbee
 
Posts: 1928
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:30 pm

ianbee wrote:...
Auction of a Waterloo Medal?
...
But Captain Craig did not serve at Waterloo. Only Adrian can explain that.
...


Err right - what we have here is, at first glance, the auction of a Waterloo Medal awarded to Captain Craig, 1st Batt. 4th Reg. Foot, with the curious statement further down the page that "Captain Craig did not serve at the battle of Waterloo". So, how come he was awarded a Waterloo Medal?

Well, he wasn't. I cheated with my weasel words "at first glance". What the description actually says is:
Waterloo 1815 (Captain Craig, 1st Batt. 4th Reg. Foot.) renamed in contemporary serif capitals, ... otherwise nearly very fine £500-600


My emphasis on the word "renamed". One of the invaluable pages from North East Medals is http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/british_index.htm where it refers to "renaming". Basically, the name is not the original. There are innocent renames where a medal is renamed because someone has lost theirs, bought an unwanted one and had the local jeweller remove the old name and put theirs on. And there are not so innocent renames...

Let's suffice it to say that a proper Waterloo medal named to an "other" Regiment of Foot would set you back some £1,500-£2,000 when the Medal Yearbook 2012 was compiled. This one was selling for about £500.

So - buyer beware. Because, in all honesty, I would have skipped over that "rename" word if Dix Noonan Webb and Ian hadn't drawn my attention to it. Well, it may not relate to Margaret's relative but it's an interesting story to add on the side!
Adrian
AdrianB38
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:07 pm

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby ianbee » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:21 pm

Once again, thank you to Adrian.
Let us hope then that the portrait miniature is actually Captain Craig!
Ian
ianbee
 
Posts: 1928
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby mbford222 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:27 pm

Thank you both for the most interesting replies. I have only seen transcriptions of the childrens' baptism records so I am off to LDS this morning to look at the parish records.
How wonderful to be able to see a picture of the Captain. I wonder if he wore his smart uniform to the wedding.
I did find a bit more info on findmypast in the series "Peninsular war, British Army Officers 1808" He served at Corunna, Sal, Rt Barg, V. Muriel and Bay as well as North America in 1814.
mbford222
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby junkers » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:13 pm

The Medal Roll for Waterloo (WO 100/15a) at The National Archives, Kew, London, shows that a Captain Craig was at Waterloo (in charge of the 1st Battalion, 4th Foot) and would have been awarded the medal. The document is online and is free.
junkers
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:19 pm

And you thought family history was confusing....

junkers wrote:The Medal Roll for Waterloo (WO 100/15a) at The National Archives, Kew, London, shows that a Captain Craig was at Waterloo (in charge of the 1st Battalion, 4th Foot) and would have been awarded the medal. ...

So far as I can see, that version of the Medal Roll does not show Craig as being awarded the Medal (unless it's written up separate from his regiment). There are something like 8 captain's companies listed for the 1st Bn / 4th, but only 2 of the captains are recorded as receiving the medal (implying the other companies were commanded by lieutenants on the day?). One of the Waterloo companies is described as Captain Craig's, but he isn't one of the 2 noted as receiving a medal.

One of the important sources for the Waterloo Roll(s) is Charles Dalton's book of 1904. That records 4 captains of the 4th in receipt of the Medal - none of them are Captain Craig. There is however, an odd note that:
Siborne gives the names of six additional captains as present with this regt. at Waterloo, but as the official Army List for 1817 does not credit them with having the Waterloo medal, the Editor has been reluctantly compelled to omit their names.

Maybe Captain Craig was one of the 6? The Muster Book & Pay List for the Battalion isn't totally clear, but Captain Craig does seem to have been charged for provisions over the crucial Waterloo period - but there is also a note that says that he and 4 other captains "Found their own passage on board a Packet" - from England to the Continent before the Battle????

Maybe nobody quite knew when he (re?) joined the battalion and so there may have been some debate within the Army over whether Captain Craig was at Waterloo or not. Bureaucracy decided not - leading to his omission from Dalton and the WO 100 roll - perhaps the captain reckoned he was there so maybe he was the one to get hold of a medal and have the local jeweller rename it for him???
Adrian
AdrianB38
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:07 pm

Re: Capt ?Craig? 4th Regt on marriage document

Postby ianbee » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:02 am

He left a will, proved in the PCC!
Will of David otherwise David Stephen Craig, Captain on Half pay in the Royal York Rangers of Bath, Somerset
Date: 2 April 1830
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Reference: PROB 11/1769/333

Buried at St Swithins, Bath. Age 56
https://www.batharchives.co.uk/cemeteri ... avid-craig

Announcement in The Bath Chronicle, 4 February 1830
ianbee
 
Posts: 1928
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:51 pm


Return to Military help


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest