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Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

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Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby pforkes » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:29 am

Albert Hill is my great grand uncle.

His birth record says that he was born on 6th December, 1865 in Walsoken, Norfolk (on the Cambridgeshire/Norfolk border) and his birth was registered on 7th January, 1866 in Walsoken (32 days later)

There are other records that I have come across that suggest that he was actually born on 1st December, 1865, NOT on 6th December. I am starting to believe that his birthday was actually 1st December, NOT 6th December.

Parents
His father was Alfred Hill (10 February, 1845 - 16 March, 1930) and his mother was Elizabeth Hill née Barker (22nd April, 1840 - 12th January, 1920) we married on 15th January 1865 at The Parish Church, Emneth, Norfolk.
Alfred Hill (his father) was a tin smith.

Siblings
He is the eldest of (allegedly) four children (I will come back to this)
His eldest sister (that I know of) is Elizabeth Hill (11th August, 1867 - 20 March 1957) and his other sister is Cecilia Lucinda Hill (14th June, 1870 - 19th August 1963). Cecilia is my great grand mother.
In the 1911 census, it asks ‘how many children the married couple have had and how many have died’. They give the number as: 4 in total; 3 living; and one died. I have never found any evidence of the one who died. (Hence, I used the word “allegedly” earlier.)

1871 census
I believe that the 1871 census for Ely was destroyed in a flood (perhaps someone cam confirm this) and I have not come across him, his mother or his siblings in any 1871 census.
However, his father is a boarder at Back Lane, Seaford, Lincolnshire where he is a “Tinsmith”

1881 census
There is an Albert Hill, born in Wisbech, in the 1881 census who is at Woodbury Hill Reformatory School, Shelley Beauchamp, Worcestershire. His relationship to the head is “Inmate”.
His parents and his two sisters are in the 1881 census. Alfred (his father), Elizabeth (his mother) and his sisters (Elizabeth & Cecilia) are all living at 12 King Street, Walsoken. His father’s occupation is “Tin plate worker”; his mother’s occupation is “Wash woman” and his sisters are “Scholars”.

1891 census
I have not found him in the 1891 census.
His parents are living at 7 Chapel Road, Wisbech, Cambridgeshire. His father’s occupation is “Tin smith”. He is shown to be married and his occupation is “Tinsmith”

1901 census*
I have not found him in the 1901 census.
His parents are living on Chapel Street, Wisbech, Cambridgeshire. His father’s occupation is shown as “Tinsmith”.

1911 census
The 1911 census has an Albert Hill, born about 1866 in Wisbech, Cambridge, who is living at Salvation Army Working Mens' Hotel and Shelter, Middlesex Street, London. It shows his occupation as “fisherman”. It also shows that he is “widowed”.

Marriage
The 1911 census says that he is widowed, but I have no idea as to who his wife was and when she died. This would be of interest to me.

War records
I have a two-page copy of his war record that I will post in the Military section of this forum. For simplicity, I will just say that at the age of 46 he enlisted in the navy.

What I would like to find out about my grand uncle is as follows: (in order) is:.
There are many thing that I would like to find out about my grand uncle and the top ones would be as follows:
1. Who was his (alleged) third sibling?
2. When and where did he die?
3. Who was his wife?
4. If he did go to a reformatory school, then why?
5. Where was he when the 1901 census was taken?
6. Where was he when the 1891 census was taken?
7. Where was he when the 1871 census was taken?
8. What was his war record (see the Military section).

Thanks in advance,

Peter
pforkes
 
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby peter kent » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:47 am

I believe that the 1871 census for Ely was destroyed in a flood


Not so far as I know. You can check in the National Archives catalogue. Major chunks (but not the odd page) are noted as Missing or Wanting. Try a search term such as cambridgeshire AND ely AND (missing OR wanting) confining the search to RG10.
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby ianbee » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:31 am

We did find a little bit of info in January
topic14508.html

Nicola came across two possible baptisms for Albert! Or two Alberts.
There was a newspaper article in which he may have been named as Alfred, like his father, and was described as unruly. So yes, seemingly he later found himself in Woodbury Hill for a spell.

Baptism of sibling Cecilia, as Hills, in Walsoken, 11 Sep 1870
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1823613
Abode New Walsoken.

The family were still in Walsoken in 1881, if Alfred Hill is found in Sleaford in the 1871 census, perhaps his wife contrived to miss being enumerated back home!

Walsoken was in Wisbech district.
Ian
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby ianbee » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:07 am

Fourth child could be this one?
Dec 1872 Sleaford 7a 421
Hill, Ellen
mother Barker

Death
Dec 1874 Wisbeach 3b 420
Hill, Ellen
age 2

If so, Elizabeth and family joined Alfred in Sleaford later, or they were not recorded with him in 1871!
Ian
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby pforkes » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:09 pm

Fourth child could be this one?
Dec 1872 Sleaford 7a 421
Hill, Ellen
mother Barker

Death
Dec 1874 Wisbeach 3b 420
Hill, Ellen
age 2

If so, Elizabeth and family joined Alfred in Sleaford later, or they were not recorded with him in 1871!
Ian


Coincidentally, about two hours after I posted this message I also found Ellen Hill and sent off doe her birth certificate.
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby pforkes » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:12 pm

ianbee wrote:There was a newspaper article in which he may have been named as Alfred, like his father, and was described as unruly. So yes, seemingly he later found himself in Woodbury Hill for a spell.

Where can I find this news article?


ianbee wrote:Baptism of sibling Cecilia, as Hills, in Walsoken, 11 Sep 1870
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1823613
Abode New Walsoken.

I had also found this baptism and believe that this has to be her.
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby ianbee » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:55 pm

pforkes wrote:Where can I find this news article?

It's a story that was in a few newspapers
Stamford Mercury, 3 August 1877 (where he is called Alfred Hill)
Cambridge Chronicle, 4 August 1877
Norwich Mercury, 4 August 1877

Available on British Newspaper Archive (simply register and get three page views for free), or findmypast
Ian
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby pforkes » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:22 am

So, Ellen Hill's birth and marriage certificates both arrived. The birth certificate is her, but the death certificate is not.

Ellen Hill was born on 25th September, 1872, at West Banks, New Seaford, Lincolnshire. She was the fourth (and final) child of Alfred Hill and Elizabeth Hill (née Barker).

Her father was a tinsmith/journeyman. The 1871 census has him living away from his family, in New Seaford, Lincolnshire. I have not found his wife or their three children in the 1871 census.

The 1881 census has her parents living at 12 King Street, Walsoken, Norfolk but she is not mentioned on the 1881 census (and believe this is because she had passed away) though her two older sisters were on the 1881 census, and living with their parents.

There is an Ellen Hill who died in Wisbech on 19th November, 1874, but her father is Henry James Hill (who is not her father).

As she is not mentioned on the 1881 census, I am assuming that she had died before 3rd April 1881, but I cannot find a record of her death.
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Re: Albert Hill is my great grand uncle...

Postby ksouthall » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:33 pm

pforkes wrote:As she is not mentioned on the 1881 census, I am assuming that she had died before 3rd April 1881, but I cannot find a record of her death.


She could have been living elsewhere, either with relatives or at school. She could also be listed as Helen or Nellie. It may be worth trying to broaden your search if you can't find a death record for her.
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