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James William Warren b1901

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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby Leigh Warren » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:24 pm

MoVidger wrote:This might help with your search:

The SS Le Coq sailed from Port Arthur to the port of Norfolk, VA (arriving there in June 1920). Then in August 1920, it sailed from Norfolk to Bordeaux, France.

The vessel appears to have made very similar annual journeys like this a century ago. Usually loading up in Port Arthur, then stopping off in East Coast ports (e.g. Norfolk, Philadelphia, Newport, New York)) before travelling back to England or Europe.

In the case of my own relative, he appears in a similar manifest of alien passengers, arriving in New York during WW2. He worked on the SS Aquitania as a pantry cook. He never settled in the USA. He returned to the UK on the same ship. But anyone looking at that manifest now might assume he remained in the USA, which never happened.


Thanks for the information, out of curiosity how did you find that out? Newspaper? Thru Ancestry that is the last I found of him i.e. at Port Arthur. He doesn't appear in the 1939 Register as such and I cannot find a death record for him. But then again out of 7 brothers/sisters for my grandfather I can only find some information on 2 of them not including James William Warren. Go back one generation further and no worries other people are researching as am I.

Is there any way of finding out if he was on the SS Le Coq when it left Port Arthur to the Port of Norfolk VA?

Again thank you to everyone.

Leigh
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby MoVidger » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:29 pm

There are a handful of maritime mentions for the SS Le Coq on the Newspapers.com website. The Le Coq is occasionally mentioned up to the early 1920s. Some US newspapers on the East Coast had a page devoted to shipping information, noting the arrivals and destinations of foreign steamers and tankers into their local ports, such as the SS Le Coq.

As for determining if your relative was still on the Le Coq when it departed for Norfolk, VA, I would imagine that would be difficult to confirm. Perhaps he only made the one overseas journey with the steamer in 1920, and remained on the vessel when it sailed to Bordeaux ??

Throughout 1921, the Le Coq appeared to journey to/from various ports such as Norfolk, New Orleans, Port Arthur, Balboa (Panama Canal), and in Wales. It's anyone's guess if your relative was still with the Le Coq in 1921 and beyond.

Good luck with your search. If you don't have a subscription for Newspapers.com, try googling for old monthly journals relating to shipping and oil transport, etc. There are several different journals which name-check the Le Coq circa 1920. One even mentions a boiler repair the vessel required at Falmouth in 1920 (??)
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby Leigh Warren » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:53 am

MoVidger wrote:There are a handful of maritime mentions for the SS Le Coq on the Newspapers.com website. The Le Coq is occasionally mentioned up to the early 1920s. Some US newspapers on the East Coast had a page devoted to shipping information, noting the arrivals and destinations of foreign steamers and tankers into their local ports, such as the SS Le Coq.

As for determining if your relative was still on the Le Coq when it departed for Norfolk, VA, I would imagine that would be difficult to confirm. Perhaps he only made the one overseas journey with the steamer in 1920, and remained on the vessel when it sailed to Bordeaux ??

Throughout 1921, the Le Coq appeared to journey to/from various ports such as Norfolk, New Orleans, Port Arthur, Balboa (Panama Canal), and in Wales. It's anyone's guess if your relative was still with the Le Coq in 1921 and beyond.

Good luck with your search. If you don't have a subscription for Newspapers.com, try googling for old monthly journals relating to shipping and oil transport, etc. There are several different journals which name-check the Le Coq circa 1920. One even mentions a boiler repair the vessel required at Falmouth in 1920 (??)



Thanks for that appreciate it - Leigh
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:46 pm

The Port Arthur record for James appears to be one that was "turned over to the Immigration and Naturalization Service" (ancestry)
No other members of the Le Coq crew are on there
A column on page two has the question "Whether alien intends to become a citizen of the United States" to which the answer is "Yes"
So it appears that it was the intention of James Warren to stay in the US. Whether he did or not is another matter.

There's a New York manifest of alien crew members of the Le Coq, 28 August 1919, sailed from Dartmouth. Includes James Warren, 19, engaged at Dartmouth 7 August
I can find CR10 cards for a number of the crew members (see findmypast, Merchant Seamen, 1918-1941). These cards have a photograph.
Leonard Carley - age 36 on the manifest, and his card says "Le Coq 6.6.19"
The Duo's, Fred and Juan, are there
So it seems that some dates when they joined a ship may be given, and either the ship's name or number.
The official number of the Le Coq was 104289 (CLIP website is a good way to find out the numbers, if you can't see it on the manifest)
Thus we can see that James Warren also has a CR10 card.
Number of Identity Certificate - 408987
Warren James
Rating - AS
Date and place of birth - 22/11/1900 London Eng
The numbers and dates written on the card are
143094 - 5.19
104289 - 8.19
" - 9.19
" - 10.19

And we know that 104289 is the Le Coq, and that your James was engaged on it in 1919.
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:18 pm

I am rather worried by this 1922 Arizona death record
http://genealogy.az.gov/azdeath/025/10251954.pdf
and here (also ancestry)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1534450

The town is Jerome (a mining town)
James Warren
died 16 June 1922
cause was Pulmonary tuberculosis
date of birth Dec 22 1900
age 21 yrs 5 mos 24 days
occupation Sailor
birthplace London England
no details for parents

Burial place Jerome Valley
http://www.apcrp.org/JEROME/1_Article_J ... 091411.htm

It's a great pity that the baptism record of William James Warren in 1901 did not give a date of birth. As he was said to be 3 months old on the 1901 census (taken 31 March) then December 1900 looks to be the likeliest month he would have been born.
But the CR10 card of James Warren said he was born November 1900, though it has the same day, the 22nd, as on the Arizona certificate.
One of these records at least seems to be wrong. Can't really say how accurate the info on that death record might be.
Ian
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:02 pm

That first number and date on James Warren's CR10 card
143094 - 5.19

143094 was SS Augsburg (later name changes)
http://www.poheritage.com/Upload/Mimsy/ ... 915pdf.pdf

So hopefully James should have been on it in May 1919
on ancestry -
U.S., Select Crew Lists and Manifests, 1903-1962
Ship: Augsburg
Arrival Date: 13 May 1919
Arrival Place: Norfolk, Virginia, USA
Port: Norfolk
I'm not sure if the crew members are indexed in any way, but a James W Warren is on there, age 18

Ancestry also have another manifest for Le Coq, October 1919, New York, with James Warren, 18. Though how they read James I don't know! But that should be right.
EDIT - much better image on the Ellis Island website, http://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/
Originally said his name was Victor. Crossed out and replaced with James.
Ian
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby ianbee » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:44 pm

Leigh Warren wrote:Is there any way of finding out if he was on the SS Le Coq when it left Port Arthur to the Port of Norfolk VA?

We know that James Warren was intending to stay in the US when Le Coq arrived in Port Arthur 11 January 1920
But anyway, he is not on the manifest of alien crew members of Le Coq when it arrived at Newport, Virginia,
24 January 1920, from Texas

U.S., Select Crew Lists and Manifests, 1903-1962
Arrival Date: 24 Jan 1920
Arrival Place: Newport News, Virginia, USA
Port: Newport News
Ship: Le Coq

(bit of it attached here, and there is a second page)
Attachments
le Coq 24 Jan 1920 Virginia.jpg
le Coq 24 Jan 1920 Virginia.jpg (63.81 KiB) Viewed 1516 times
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby Leigh Warren » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:33 pm

ianbee wrote:
Leigh Warren wrote:Is there any way of finding out if he was on the SS Le Coq when it left Port Arthur to the Port of Norfolk VA?

We know that James Warren was intending to stay in the US when Le Coq arrived in Port Arthur 11 January 1920
But anyway, he is not on the manifest of alien crew members of Le Coq when it arrived at Newport, Virginia,
24 January 1920, from Texas

U.S., Select Crew Lists and Manifests, 1903-1962
Arrival Date: 24 Jan 1920
Arrival Place: Newport News, Virginia, USA
Port: Newport News
Ship: Le Coq

(bit of it attached here, and there is a second page)


Just wanted to say thank you for your effort - amazing

thanks Leigh
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Re: James William Warren b1901

Postby Leigh Warren » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:25 am

ianbee wrote:I am rather worried by this 1922 Arizona death record
http://genealogy.az.gov/azdeath/025/10251954.pdf
and here (also ancestry)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1534450

The town is Jerome (a mining town)
James Warren
died 16 June 1922
cause was Pulmonary tuberculosis
date of birth Dec 22 1900
age 21 yrs 5 mos 24 days
occupation Sailor
birthplace London England
no details for parents

Burial place Jerome Valley
http://www.apcrp.org/JEROME/1_Article_J ... 091411.htm

It's a great pity that the baptism record of William James Warren in 1901 did not give a date of birth. As he was said to be 3 months old on the 1901 census (taken 31 March) then December 1900 looks to be the likeliest month he would have been born.
But the CR10 card of James Warren said he was born November 1900, though it has the same day, the 22nd, as on the Arizona certificate.
One of these records at least seems to be wrong. Can't really say how accurate the info on that death record might be.
Ian


This is interesting in that it was rumoured that James had gone for the gold rush even though that was over by then but his brother John Golden Warren my grandfather had a gold chain with I believe a miners pick and barrow (mum told me) and that he received it from his brother James.

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