Who Do You Think You Are Magazine Forum

[plumber12]

My grandfather Stanley James Gosling b:1899.
Served: 6th (Inniskilling) dragoons (shoeing Smith) Service number: 21967
Served: 6th Welch Regiment Territorials.

Any help appreciated

[AdrianB38]

For information - this is a duplicate of the question raised on 4 April. Questions were raised there about exactly what information is known already, in order to stop people duplicating work already done.

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[plumber12]

OOPS!!!!
Difference this time is army number 21967.

[AdrianB38]

OK if there's something new to look at...

I cannot find any trace in the Medal Index cards of a Gosling in the 6th Dragoons with number 21967. Nor does FindMyPast show his details in any WW1 collection.

Assuming that your details are correct (where did they come from, by the way?) this indicates that (1) he did not serve abroad during WW1 and (2) that either his papers were burned in WW2 - or that he served on past 1920 and that his papers are still with the MoD.

According to Paul Nixon's Army Service Number blog, from December 1906, all Dragoon and Dragoon Guards entrants were numbered into one sequence across the entire Corps of Dragoons. See http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/6th-inniskilling-dragoons.html. Numbers are usually issued roughly in sequence. Unless anyone can show otherwise!

21967 seems to have been issued some way into WW1 - the closest I could get in the Corps of Dragoons numbers was a Samuel Clare, issued 21763 in May 1916. There are all sorts of warnings about using numbers to decide when someone was recruited, but that's the best we can do in the absence of papers. Those numbers around there whose papers survive, seem burnt around the edges, suggesting to my mind (but not proving) that those Corps of Dragoons papers were filed together and burnt together.

Re his later Territorial service - I remain unclear, as indicated in the previous thread, where his papers are, if they were ever kept.

[MaureenE]

As he was born before 1901, there is a finding aid issued by the Ministry of Defence which will indicate whether it holds a service file or not. If it does, you can order a copy.

Details are on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page British Army, section "Army personnel serving after January 1921"
http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/British ... nuary_1921

Cheers
Maureen

[plumber12]

Maureen E - Thank you.

[AdrianB38]

If you've found anything on that link that Maureen provided, then fine - but if not -

1. Can you confirm your GF's exact date of birth? (Those spreadsheets have exact dates of birth in them);
2. As a cross check, can you confirm the approximate date of his death and the rough area, so we can see the entry for his death in the indexes?

[plumber12]

AdrianB38 -
GF Date of Birth = 14th November 1899
Date of Death = 11th October 1973

[AdrianB38]

Huge thanks to Maureen for this link - it appears that the MoD has the papers for Stanley Gosling. Or, at least some of them.

Follow her link to http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/British_Army#Army_personnel_serving_after_January_1921 and then, following the instructions there, you can go to https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/foi-responses-released-by-mod-week-commencing-1-december-2014. Scroll down a bit and you'll see sheet "Attachment 3: service personnel indexed data for those with a date of birth date prior to 1901".

You can download it and open it up in Excel or similar and have a look with a find type command for this line:
Item ADT000285562 (I have no idea what that means) with Service Number 3950735, Name Gosling SJ, and Date of Birth 1899-11-14. This matches your GF by name and date of birth. It means that the MoD has at least some of the papers for Stanley Gosling. If you want copies, you should follow the instructions on the first link that tell you how to apply to the MoD (the FIBIS site only has the instructions, not the papers!) - the MoD instructions that FIBIS points to are on https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records It takes months, by the way.

You'll need to use Service Number 3950735 to apply for his papers. I've no idea where it fits into his history but http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/4837-army-number-block-allocations/ indicates that it was a number issued by the Welch Regiment, which also fits your GF - whether it is a Territorial number I've no idea.

What the MoD papers will consist of, I've no idea. It might be that they include his WW1 papers as well as his later service. People seem unsure whether it's normal for 2 sets of papers, for 2 distinct periods of service, to be bundled together. If your GF didn't tell them about his prior service, then of course there'd be no reason for them to go and find the previous set.

Best of luck. There is no other way to access these papers by the way, other than by following the MoD process.

[plumber12]

Thank you all for the assistance.

I sent the form off for my grandfathers war records quoting both army numbers but only for the form to be returned. Silly me I only got my mother to sign the form once instead of twice.

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Reposted the form again...fingers crossed.
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04/08/2016
Had a reply back. Got his TA history. Not much in it but it does help.
No WW1 info.