Moderator Control Panel ]

Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Quiz genealogists, authors and staff from leading family history organisations in our weekly web chats. Post your questions in advance, or hop on each Friday afternoon to join the conversation live

Re: Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Postby juggernaut » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:46 pm

Hi from Australia
I had a convict transported in 1819 but it seems as though he got Ticket of Leave, went back to England and was sent out again. How often did that occur?
cheers
Peter
juggernaut
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:38 pm

Re: Free help with tracing criminal ancestors

Postby Laura Berry » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:57 pm

ermin79 wrote:I have a relative who, aged 19 in 1909, was sentenced at Croydon to 18 months hard labour, Wandsworth Prison (according to the Home Office Calendar of Prisons) however underneath it says Borstal system recommended . Is there a way to find out where he actually ended up?
The same man later deserted from the Australian army in WW1 and was caught in England after he went AWOL. He was sentenced to 10 yrs hard labour and was in Pentonville Prison for 4 weeks before being returned to Australia. Despite the circumstances is it possible that he would still show up as a prisoner if I searched prison records?
Many thanks

Sent from my HTC Desire C using WDYTYA Forum mobile app


I’m not sure if you’ve already checked the 1911 census, but if he was sentenced to 18 months in 1909 then I imagine he should be found in an institution on the census, which may confirm where he was transferred to. Nominal registers of admissions to Wandsworth Prison are held at the London Metropolitan Archives in refs.
ACC/3444/PR/01/152-157 for 1909, which may provide information about where he was sent. I imagine he should have been recorded at Pentonville Prison for his second stint inside, however unfortunately the whereabouts of those records for that time period are unknown (The National Archives hold them for the Victorian period, but the London Metropolitan Archives do not have any supplementary records for Pentonville, and I wonder whether they are actually still held by the prison if they survive).

Best wishes,
Laura
Laura Berry
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:54 am

Re: Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Postby Laura Berry » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:58 pm

JonathanJB wrote:My 3x Great Grandfather, Israel Shiplee, born 1806, was found guilty of being an accomplice to the murder of a policeman in Gisleham, Suffolk in 1844. A fact I only stumbled upon when looking at old newspapers and using variations of the spelling of his name. I've located online records showing he was imprisoned and "sentenced to transportation for life" being ultimately sent to Norfolk Island/Tasmania in 1946. I can't however find any subsequent records.

Do you know whether records may exist to show if he died there? Would it be likely that he could have changed his name, if he was released?

His removal from his family does explain why in the 1951 census I found his wife and children as recorded as living "in the street" in Mutford, Suffolk - tough times!

Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks!


The Tasmanian Archives have started to digitize quite a few of their records – go to the Tasmania Name Index at http://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names and enter his name in the search box. I see they have a Conduct Record and a separate Indent record. You’ll have to browse through page-by-page to see the latter record, which can be quite time-consuming, but they’re completely free so it’s worth doing. From these records it looks like he was still alive in 1857 – you can apply for the death indexes to be searched (for a fee) using the form at http://www.justice.tas.gov.au/__data/as ... on_5.0.pdf. Most people did remain in Australia after they were released, so I think it likely he would have died there, and there’s no reason to suspect he changed his name. His surname is indexed in the Tasmanian Archive entries as ‘Shipley’, so it’s worth mentioning that on the form. Good luck!
Laura
Laura Berry
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:54 am

Re: Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Postby Laura Berry » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:03 pm

townender66 wrote:Hi Laura
One of my relatives was recorded as being in North Lancashire Reformatory in 1881. How do I find out why he was sent there?
Thanks, Paul


Hi Paul,
A good bet is to try local newspapers, but Lancashire Record Office in Preston should hold further records for this particular institution. You could try a quick name search using the combined Access to Archives database now integrated into TNA's Discovery Service at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk - if he was committed through the Quarter Sessions his name and crime may have been indexed.
Best wishes,
Laura
Laura Berry
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:54 am

Re: Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Postby Laura Berry » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:04 pm

Tigertabby wrote:Hello Laura, typically how long does it take to research each episode? The obvious channels of Ancestory etc I guess don't take long, but once you get beyond that, do you literally visit the relevant parishes? I'd absolutely love to work on my family tree full time particularly as I have Scottish ancestory so need a trip to Scotland, but persuading my husband is a different matter! Thank you!


Each episode takes at least a few months to research, but that's with a whole team of us beavering away, and yes we do visit the local archives to investigate off-line records too. Definitely worth you making a trip to Scotland I think!
Best wishes,
Laura
Laura Berry
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:54 am

Re: Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Postby Laura Berry » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:06 pm

juggernaut wrote:Hi from Australia
I had a convict transported in 1819 but it seems as though he got Ticket of Leave, went back to England and was sent out again. How often did that occur?
cheers
Peter


Hi Peter,
Fairly unusual I would say, I haven't got any stats to hand but personally I've not come across it happening before!
Best wishes,
Laura
Laura Berry
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:54 am

Re: Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Postby ermin79 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:11 pm

Many thanks Laura for your guidance, I cannot find my relative in the 1911 census at all but will endeavour to search the Wandsworth prison records. I wasn't aware of the missing period in Pentonville prison records, I will attempt to explore other avenues.

Sent from my HTC Desire C using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
ermin79
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: Laura Berry (criminal ancestors)

Postby researchgranny » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:24 pm

Thanks Laura, will look again next time I am in London later this month

Sent from my GT-N8010 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
researchgranny
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:39 pm

Re: Free help with tracing criminal ancestors

Postby sandyscott21 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:52 pm

Laura Berry wrote:
sandyscott21 wrote:In 1832 my 5th great grand aunt was found guilty of abusing her niece (my 4th great grand aunt). She had the child up tied up, starved her and beat her. The newspaper reports suggest the trial generated a lot of interest - as it would today. The Aunt was fined and imprisoned for 1 year for cruelty. All the details I have are from the newspapers. The only court record I have seen is one line in a ledger recording the name, crime and punishment of the aunt. Would there be other detailed court records with full witness statements or is the newspaper account the best I can hope for in 1832? I am related through the brother of the poor abused girl and I would love to know where he and rest of the family were at the time. Thankyou.

ps. The offence occurred in Writtle, Essex.


Generally, newspapers are the best place to find really detailed accounts, as few witness statements survive. The location of any extant court records will depend on which court the trial took place at. They will either be held at Essex Record Office in Chelmsford or The National Archives - the latter’s guide at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/reco ... nd-law.htm explains which type of court records are held where. Since you know the date of the trial and presumably the court from the newspaper accounts it could be worth you contacting Essex Record Office anyway to see what they have for that date and court, to assess whether it’s worth you making a visit (contact details are at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... /A13533128).

Best wishes,
Laura



Thanks Laura

I'll follow up with Essex to see if they have anything. I live near the National Archives so might have a look at what they have too...I've been looking for a reason to go visit! :)

Sandy
sandyscott21
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:34 am

Previous

Return to Live web chats


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests