Who Do You Think You Are Magazine Forum

[keithn]

Hi, my great-great-great grandfather Joseph Nevols was a publican at The Forresters Arms in 1861 in Isombridge, Shropshire. He died five years later and the pub appears to have vanished.

The area was primarily agricultural workers and I can imagine them all coming in the front door for a beer after a hard day out in the fields.

Are there any records of pubs around at the time to help me locate it? Equally anything about the history of pubs ?

Any advice appreciated.

Keith Nevols

[paulberyl]

Hi Keith,

Shropshire Archives hold some historic information on local public houses, although in the main this is for the main towns in Shropshire rather than the villages - however you never know your luck.

The other sources I would use are Kelly's Directories/Post Office Diectories. By going through each year from 1861 (or earlier) you should be able to trace the history of the pub, who were the landlords and what became ot it. (I did this for an ancestor of mine and found the pub he ran was originally a back-to-back house, subsequently converted to a pub and finally demolished as part of the slum clearance programme).

Paul

[HollyBushInn]

Hello Keith

I agree that your best port of call would be the County Records Office.

I would order up the Tithe Commutation Map (Tithe Map) and the Schedule together as these were produced in the 1830's and 1840's. Some have later Altered Apportionments too. The numbers on the Tithe Map will correspond to a Schedule in alphabetical order by Landowner. However the occupier should also be shown, but most of all the Pub name is usually shown in the Schedule, which you can then find on the map.

Try also the first edition Large Scale Ordnance Survey Maps (my area Nuneaton is 1887 and 1888) but the Forresters could still be there then, a good local Library with a Local Studies Section will have these, also they were online on the old-maps.co.uk website. These large scale first edition OS Maps name and show many rural Pubs and Inns quite easily.

You might be lucky and the Victuallers Licences or Victuallers / Licensing Register have suvived for the 1861 period for the nearest Licensing Courts.

The Annual Licensing Sessions were end of August, usually early September with transfers taking place at both the Annual Licencing (Brewster) Sessions, or at the more regular Petty Sessions (Magistrates Court / later also called a Police Court). These were often reported in the local newspapers covering the Sessions or Courts which renewed the Licences. But expect a long read and trawl through the newspapers, it might be one line in a column and they are easily missed! However you might be lucky as the transfer of the Licence might have took place at the Annual Sessions (some larger town or City newspapers reported various local Licensing Sessions if the local newspaper had not begun by 1861), but you will see which pubs and inns in the area of interest are transferring and at which Sessions and Courts these transfers are taking place.

Occasionally some Victuallers and businesses got into debt and the notices can be searched by name in the London Gazette at gazettes-online.co.uk which shows a pdf of the actual original Gazette page, well worth a check (also check with, surname first before listing forename/s and vice versa).

Don't forget the 1861 Census too.
Also Voters / Poll (Electoral) Indexes as he might have owned the premises.
Also Street Directories such as Kelly's; Whites; The Post Office Directory and other Commercial Directories, etc etc, which covered your area by place and check by surname, also try various Libraries for these Directories, as some Libraries have certain years, but other Libraries and Collections have the other years.

I have found the people at the Inn I have been researching mentioned in Births and Deaths and the Licensee's son's Marriage address, if the events took place whilst resident at the Pub.

The Forresters Arms could of survived beyond 1861 and almost all pubs and Inns were photographed at some point, some books have been published, with some photos in private hands. I had to knock a few doors in the village to find the old photo of our village Inn.

If you are determined and have time, I am sure you will find some information out and enjoy being the Pub / Inn Detective, your Ancestor might even have got into trouble (open after hours / Sunday opening during Church / underage drinking on the premises, selling short or quelling a disturbance - with fighting at his pub), some Victullers in villages were grocers, butchers and bakers too. I discovered several Police Reports at the Inn I have been researching around this period.

Although 1861 might be too late, you might find the Pub on an earlier Manorial Map of the area.

Regards Mark

[Cati]

There is a Foresters Arms in Broseley, 2 miles from Ironbridge, which was a 16th century coaching inn - there's a photograph on bestplace.co.uk