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Alan Carr (14 September)

Discuss this year's series, featuring celebrities including June Brown, JK Rowling, Sebastian Coe and Alan Carr

Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby Wahian » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:13 am

Maria Annie's two sons by Thomas Laing we last saw in 1911 living with their granddad; we didn't learn what became of them? Thomas George got married in 1933 in Kent and died 1979. His brother Henry John married in 1936 in Camberwell and passed away in 1970.

By 1915, the brothers have been separated; Thomas Laing with Henry and Annie, and Henry Laing is with someone else; maybe with his granddad still, or maybe not.
Last edited by Wahian on Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby Jodakist » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:57 pm

This episode was a waste of the licence payers money. There have been some really good programmes, especially in the earlier series where more research was shown. Surely the producers can do better than this? And, finally Is Alan Carr really a comedian?
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby Jim Allan » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:46 pm

Dear Editor, As One of three local councillors in Camperdown, which includes the village of Burradon, I know that there was a great expectation that Alan's links to village would be part of the programme and a great many local people will be very disppointed about the ommission. I know you are saying it will be included in December but the question may are asking was why is was missed in the first programme.

Yours

Councillor Jim Allan
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby sgoldsmith » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:56 pm

It seems a pity that some people fault with this programme for what it included (references to football and desertion) or for what it omitted (detail about a mining accident). What the programme did highlight was the availability of military records and where to find them. But it is a television programme and as such it follows that a decision has to be made as to what is included and what is omitted. As I watched the programme - already knowing that I used to watch Alan's father, Graham, playing for Dartford Football Club - I thought that there was something familiar about the Carter and Wayman surnames, checked my records and found that Alan's great uncle Harold had married a distant relative in my Bates family line (my father's mother's family) - and quite coincidentally, one of their children married someone named Carr! I shared this information with someone else who has connections with the Bates family and he tells me that the Commonwealth Graves Commission's records record the death in 1915 of a Thomas Wayman, born in Dulwich, who perhaps was Maria's brother. We wonder if this event explains what led to Henry deserting. A further point on the links to places mentioned in the programme: the Royal Victoria and Bull Hotel in Dartord has always been referred to as the Bull and Vic. It was also the place of death of the Cornish engineer and pioneer in the history of railways, Richard Trevithick.
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby Wahian » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:49 am

The soldier killed in WW1 on 11 May, 1915 was actually George Thomas Wayman and indeed, Maria Annie did have a brother George Wayman b.1891 in Dulwich as George Thomas. Only appear together in 1901 living in Whately Rd.
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby ksouthall » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:34 pm

I enjoyed the deserter story in the Alan Carr episode and thought it was valuable to show it and put deserters into perspective. Who can blame Alan's ancestor for not wanting to go to war? I wouldn't have wanted to go. As another poster said, programmes shouldn't be censored just because some might find them offensive, especially as it is nearly 100 years since the start of the First World War. There are plenty more offensive programmes shown on TV.
I also liked the way Alan Carr responded to what he found out. It must have been quite a shock going from thinking his ancestor was a war hero to finding out he was a deserter. I thought he handled it well in the circumstances.
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby Durham lady » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:13 pm

I was disappointed that more wasn't shown of Alan's CARR ancestors. Is he descended from John CARR who was killed in the Burradon mining disaster in 1860? if so he is a distant relation to my husband who's great grandfather's sister Dorothy HUGHES was married to John CARR.
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby Bill Henderson » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:21 am

I agree with some of the comments on how poor a programme this was , compared with some of the others in the series which had more 'in depth' research and content. As an ancestor of Alan Carr's Maddox family myself and an avid family historian, I was contacted by a lady researchr from the programme. I realise there is some need for secrecy, but she wouldn't tell me who's ancestry she was researching and gave little indication of any particular angle from which they were approaching their research.

Had she told me, I could have mentioned that I was realted to Alan Carr via the Maddox family of Burradon, was a next door neighbour of Alan's paternal great grand parents, a schoolmate of his father and given her details of some colourful ancestors, in particular his great great great great grandfather, Thomas Maddox, who was born in 1766 in Fort George, near Boston Massachussets.

No one can find out what his family was doing in America. Was his father a British soldier there just prior to the American Revolution? Were th Maddox family settlers there? a topic ripe for research and with the resources available to this progamme, one which might have provided answers.

For whatever reason, the 1780s, this man appears in the Northumberland coalfield as a miner. How and Why ??. He was a most unusual man to be a miner in that he ould read and write ( unheard of for a miner in the 18th century) and figures frequently as a witness in Longbenton Parish records. He was apparently popular with other miners as a marriage witness because he could write.

I say he was colourful, because on the 21st June, 1795, he and a group of other pitmen from Bigges Main Colliery went to Newcastle Town Moor races. After the race meeting, they went to a beer tent on the Moor, where at closing time, an argument broke out between them and the landlord about the size of their bill. A man called Thomas Purves, who was a member of the Newcastle Volunteers, a local militia, in uniform, interceded on the landlord's part and a fight ensued, during which Purves sustained fatal injuries.

The group of miners, including Thomas Maddox, were arrested and taken to Newgate Prison, Newcastle, where they were questioned regarding the murder of Purves by the Mayor and Constable of the city. This resulted in three of the group, bothers John and Thomas Nicholson and one Francis Grey, being charged with murder and appearing before Newcastle Assizes on 6th August, 1795. The trial lasted 5 HOURS. Thomas Maddox was an obviously reluctant and biased witness, who the Judge dismissed as being totally untrustworthy, but the result was that one of the men, Thomas Nicholson, was convicted of murder. On 8th August, he was hanged in public in Gallowgate.

Both myslf and another family historian, Ron Maddox from Westmoor, have copies of the transcripts of witness statements from th trial and copies of contemporary newspaper reports about the public hanging. Now wouldn't this, combined with the story of why Thomas Maddox was born in America and the fact that five of his descendants, George Maddox, 45 years, James Maddox , 17 years, John Maddox 31 years, John Maddox 15 years and Thomas Maddox 20 years perished in the Burradon Pit Disaster of 1860, have made better television and have been far more interesting that the story of a World War 1 deserter??? I think so.
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby phsvm » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:32 am

I'd agree - much more interesting and perhaps less distasteful to some who found Alan Carr's attitude offensive.

I'm not suggesting that the BBC or programme makers shy away from controversy but there's a time and place for everything. WDYTYA wasn't, in my opinion, the time or place, especially when there apperas to have been a fascinating alternative and perhaps more in keeping with the Carr's personality.
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Re: Alan Carr (14 September)

Postby ksouthall » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:17 am

Bill Henderson wrote:Both myslf and another family historian, Ron Maddox from Westmoor, have copies of the transcripts of witness statements from th trial and copies of contemporary newspaper reports about the public hanging. Now wouldn't this, combined with the story of why Thomas Maddox was born in America and the fact that five of his descendants, George Maddox, 45 years, James Maddox , 17 years, John Maddox 31 years, John Maddox 15 years and Thomas Maddox 20 years perished in the Burradon Pit Disaster of 1860, have made better television and have been far more interesting that the story of a World War 1 deserter??? I think so.


I enjoyed the part about the army deserter and seeing history from a different point of view. It is good to challenge people's views of what life was like for deserters. Plus, if this was the story Alan Carr himself was most interested in, then that is why the programme makers chose to show it.
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